Order of operations during ki throw, vicious stomp, and binding throw.


Rules Questions


As I finish building my Muay Thai (Or probably better named MMA fighter) build, I ran into a possible snag.

The goal is on a charge to move in and trip someone (using greater trip), and then blind them (quick dirty trick replacing the AOO), followed by repositioning them (ki throw), and then smack them again causing them to be shaken (unarmed strike with enforcer via vicious stomp) and finally grapple them (binding throw).

First off, I feel like this is an awesome use of a non-full attack action (albeit at the cost of many many MANY feats), but I'm unsure of the order of operations here. First let me quote the relevant rules.

Ki Throw:

Benefit: On a successful unarmed trip attack against a target your size or smaller, you may throw the target prone in any square you threaten rather than its own square. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and you cannot throw the creature into a space occupied by other creatures.

Binding Throw:

Benefit: After you successfully use the Ki Throw feat on an opponent, you can use a swift action to attempt a grapple combat maneuver against that opponent.

Vicious Stomp:

Benefit: Whenever an opponent falls prone adjacent to you, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you. This attack must be an unarmed strike.

My Thoughts

So the conflict that I'm seeing is with when binding throw takes place and when vicious stomp takes place. If the AOO from falling prone is generated before I make the grapple check (or if I get to choose what order to complete these steps) then I can make my vicious stomp attack and then use a swift action to grapple.

However, if I'm forced to make the grapple check prior to the target falling prone, then we gain the grappled condition and i'm no longer able to make an AOO.

So.... I'm stuck, I'm not sure which if any order to apply these rules.


So after thinking about it I feel like it should be ok for this reason.

"Binding Throw:

Benefit: After you successfully use the Ki Throw feat on an opponent, you can use a swift action to attempt a grapple combat maneuver against that opponent."

The key word is after because it means that the ki throw which is itself take place on an unarmed trip is first completed. So if the trip is completed then they're already prone which implies that vicious stomp is triggered.

So I guess that clears it up (for me at least).

So yay for a fighter triggering prone, grappled, shaken, and blinded for a round (with the possibility to add in sickened the next round via a cruel weapon)


I believe the correct order would be:

1) unarmed trip attempt (assumed successful)
2) ki throw (1&2 happen together)
3) Because you have vicious stomp, the creature provokes an AoO (which happens outside the normal timeline of events)
4) Binding throw

I imagine it as a leg sweep (trip attempt) where you catch the opponent and suplex him (throw him). Then you do an elbow drop into his sternum, and then grapple him.

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