As Lochar said, PVP happens when certain details in the scenario allow for it. It's right up there with PCs committing PVP because someone is in the AoE or under the influence dominate/suggestion/charm.
You may also find that different players react very differently. My character had, at that time, a partner character; we were both unarmed fighters of different classes. The two of us enjoyed working out some "unresolved aggression" with lethal blows from our fists. Some of the party refused to participate, and another bluffed his way into being a non-combatant while he sneaked up on us and knocked us into unconsciousness.
Sanctioned PVP is a very telling rp mechanic; players get to know their characters and the other characters very well.
Developer
|
You can also subtly signal to the players that PvP in this case is an option, particularly so long as it's not malicious player-killing so much as player-harming. See what others have said above.
GM: He expects you to fight among yourselves to see who wins.
Players: We can't do that, though, right? Wouldn't that be PvP?
GM: Actually, I'll let you decide where to draw the line for that, dear infiltrators.
|
When I ran this they had two follow after the drugging and never really infiltrated but rather snuck in and then systematically killed everything.
When I played it, our GM made a huge point that we had to always wear our masks. So I used my grippli agile tongue to steal their masks so the other Razmirans did the pummeling for me.
|
|
A module can not possible cover everything that could happen.
When My PCs killed krantz in the bakery they came back sayng they were ambushed by pathfinders. They were brought upstairs to the boss. They failed their bluff check and then another fight broke out.
Players can always do something different and change the way something is meant to be written. A good DM rolls with it and makes it seem that was written into the adventure.
It would not be hard to press the bar staff at the lament to figure out where they came from.
I honestly prefer this as it gives me more control and I can make the game more entertaining.
|
|
When I ran this they had two follow after the drugging and never really infiltrated but rather snuck in and then systematically killed everything.Interesting. How did they know where to look? The tavern would/should have been closed to outsiders once the meeting started. Did the shop keeper just let them in after and look around?
One of the challenges I'm having with this mission as a GM is that there are lot of logistical things that are not covered. One is the internal patrols and general occupancy throughout the building. A big part of the module involves character trying to sneak around inside, but there are no mechanics for who might see them.
Another issue is how identifiable are the PC's when wearing masks and robes by other NPC's? The module suggests that there are no other women and only humans and half-orcs as members. Is a Tiefling PC going to be spotted anywhere he goes, even while wearing a mask?
What about the bar tender at the Ranger's Lament? Does he care if members come and go through his tavern at all hours of the day?
Another favorite of mine is the Bakery encounter. The module asks for various bluff checks, but does not list any consequences upon failure. My team failed the checks and then killed Krant when he came in. Now what? Do the guards at the gate notice Krant isn't with them? Do the care? Does anyone notice Krant is missing? How long does it take?
I have to say this module reminds me of 1st edition modules which seemed to give the GM the framework for the the adventure, but really forced the GM to come up with all the nuts and bolts.
This is where I had to improvise as a GM.
So what really happens when two decide to stake-out the Inn while the others are being drugged inside? They didn't have message up, so no communication.
Eventually, after a couple hours (those going inside said they'd be out in an hour), they snuck inside and searched around without the Inn Owner knowing about it. They found the trap door in the storage room, and went down the tunnel. Eventually finding the chest full of stuff, and then the cages.
After that, they grabbed robes and masks and ran around bluffing that they were priests and killing anything that tried to raise a warning. The initiates that weren't able to wear robes yet, were so scared of priests, they never stopped to notice who it was giving orders (like they could tell with the ambiguous robes and masks.)
They actually ended up triggering a double battle between the two strongest badguys (the Barbarian and the Sorcerer) and I killed one of them. They still managed to make it out alive, barely.
It was up on the roof that the LG Cleric of Sarenrae was like, "Ok, I'm tired of this," threw off his mask and from then it was just a wholesale slaughter.
They succeeded, but barely.
When I played, we went through all the initiation rites.
|
|
I honestly prefer this as it gives me more control and I can make the game more entertaining.That's true. But it also means the game can get sideways pretty easy. I'm a bigger proponent of having a consistent quality of experience for the player rather than dramatically good or bad experiences because the GM got into deep water and started drowning.
I have had a DM stop the game because I was so off track what the adventure was meant to do and fiat we were at a certain point because I did everything opposite of what was meant to in it. Murderer's mark
I am a player that will often veer off dramatically. So Dms should be ready for this. This module it is much easier.
Then again this is the difference between GM skill.
|
When I ran this module, the party ended up pulling the whole place at once cause they didn't want to play along with the RP of the module, especially the paladin. They had SO MANY close calls as a result of it, but in the end they had no deaths (I rolled like garbage, like I usually do...many of them were also level 4). But after the intro it was one giant 3-hour mega-battle.
Which is so different from when I played it. We did every single rite and ended up negotiating with some of the cultists once we had taken some hostages.
This module can definitely go several different ways.
|
When I ran this module, the party ended up pulling the whole place at once cause they didn't want to play along with the RP of the module, especially the paladin.
If someone wanted to play a paladin (or some other LG or LN concepts), I would tell them the scenario is likely to involve subterfuge with consistent lying and infiltration. If your character's morals don't allow for that, I would stay away from this module. This module is great for the rogues with Bluff, Diplomacy, and Stealth to really shine, something that doesn't happen often in regular scenarios.
|
|
Prepping this one right now. It is good to hear the different ways your groups have gone off the rails.
Going to play up that the mission is to find the amulet, anything else is just secondary (but I'm little worried someone might be able to sneak up stairs and hide/bluff Egarthis). The pathfinder contact will share that evidence can bring the city guard on to their side, making exiting the city easier should things get messy.
Going to be making a Disguise and Bluff cheat-sheet as well as some kind of schedule so that I can keep track of where the Heralds and Priests are during the day. Anything else that you wish you would have spent more time on before running this?
Venture-Agent, Minnesota
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
It will go off the rails. The players will take you there. Just remember to set the mood and enjoy that most of the NPCs in this temple are jerks.
When I ran this, I had a character who had a wizard power that let him turn invisible. So he opened the door of the storage area where a guard was already sitting. Realizing that this was a temple full of magical jerks I had the guard react as if it was one of his fellow priests come to prank him again.
He immediately raised his weapon and began wandering around the room, searching for his colleague. "Hells, Brian! You're not gonna get me this time! I'm on to you. No more glue on the toilet seats. No more sneaking around invisible and setting up traps for me. I'm on to you!"
The player knocked over a shelf and ran out of there with the guard shouting, "BRIIIIIIIAN!"
This was my way of signaling, hey these guys have magic and they're jerks even to each other.
What I did not realize was that the off-screen Brian would became an ongoing gag that would not stop. My players started seeing evidence of Brian's pranks EVERYWHERE. When they found the sovereign glue, they held it reverently because it was Brian's. When they needed a distraction, they yelled to the guards, "Oh, you'll never guess what Brian did THIS time! Come look! It's hilarious!"
My group wanted to find Brian, and recruit him to the Pathfinder Society! But the mysterious prankster remained mysterious to the very end.
Keep in mind that this is a module that is very loosey-goosey. Your story is only a few key moments and a map. Embrace the fluidity. Go with the nutty things your players come up with.
Here's wishing you a great game.
Hmm
|
|
Surprisingly, none of the early lies are difficult to tell:
1. You showed up to drink the cool-aid so they actively welcome you in.
2. Quizzing characters on their background and motivation isn't really their thing, they just focus on the indoctrination and just feed any that don't fall in line to the snake.
2.1 I give it 50/50 odds that someone ends up alone with the snake...
It is not until they start snooping and breaking rules (while trying to avoid punishment) that they will need to lie. And well... this group hasn't had a good murderhobo in a long time, they deserve it.
|
Contributor
|
We've been discussing running this locally because a newish player is really, really, really into his sorcerer with the Razmiran priest archetype and is interested in all things Razmiri (Razmiran? Razmirish?) . I own the module but hadn't looked at it in, well, not in years I don't guess, and mainly remembered that it had a lot to do with Razmir and his cod faith. But I cracked it open the other day and just don't see any way to run it with a Razmiran priest PC. Heck, we had trouble enough with the verisimilitude in "The Glass River Rescue" the other afternoon. Anyone see a way to make this a fun experience for all concerned?
|
|
Anyone see a way to make this a fun experience for all concerned?
There is no way I can imagine to re-skin this so that is anything other than him betraying his own faith. I recommend that he play a pregen and assign the credit to that character, that way he gets to RP with the Razmir cult, gets the minor Razmir boons, and can wind those events into his backstory in a manner that is more suited to the character.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Party really wanted to storm the front door, their contact informed them that it would be difficult and would result to imprisonment or worse should they fail.
They decided to join the cult; half from not wanting to jump the rails half from doubting if their characters could actually sneak over the walls.
Ran the three events over the next three days. Bloodsport was a bloodbath, ended with the last character standing also being staggered. He was send to the barracks to catch his breath before rejoining the training and his allies were put in bed rest. The one conscious character happened to be the paladin so he used a few lay on hands to wake the allies that could be woke and scouted the basement.
All the locked doors really hampered some of the alternate ways they could have done things, no one was trained in disable device or sleight of hand. But a character waking up early to pray to his own god discovered the Krant likes to drink and then pass out in the kitchen.
They helped pickpocket the crowd, and bluffed Krant at the baker.
After the bluff at the baker Krant decided they were legit and returned all their gear. The next morning they tried to coup de grace Krant while he slept. Unfortunately the barbarian character was up late the night before transcribing holy texts, so the player decided to sleep while the rest of the party dealt with Krant.
The ranger shot Krant in the back with a long bow, Krant rolled a natural 20 of his Fortitude save and survived, no one sleeping in the barracks heard the snap of the bow, Krant woke up half-dead angry and screaming, everyone in the barracks started waking up confused, Krant was raging in the kitchen trying to kill 3 of the party while the barbarian was pretending to be just a confused acolyte.
The barbarian managed to get out of the barracks and close one of the doors but not before an acolyte got into the hall and screamed that they were killing Krant. A mad melee proceeds as the group fights everyone that was sleeping in the barracks. Two acolytes got away to raise the alarm.
With the alarm raised, The boss gathered some help in the worship hall, minimum guards were maintained on the gate and walls, and two heralds drank their potions or invisibility to sneak down stairs and find out what was going on.
From here the scenario progresses as expected, the healed up, the barbarian put on his armor, and they fought their way up and out.
When the gate guards saw a herald jump out the second floor window and told them to open the gates, they decided to flee with him. I also assumed than one herald and a few acolytes were away from the complex that morning.
My advice;
Take some time to map out where the cultists are at any given time of the day. I used colored marbles to mark the robed cultists and brought exactly 12 white, 8 grey, and 4 black so I could keep track of the body count. When the fighting starts, be generous with perception checks and have the cultists hold their own chokepoints, that way the group doesn't get mobbed. Prep a few extra ways to show what bullies these guys are, even to each other.
This ran for 4.5 hr or RP followed by 4.5 hr of combat and I was trying to keep it quick.