I'm not so sure synth summoner can / should use mage armor / shield

[Brennon Osiris]

So, I'm building a synth for a game tomorrow, and I was completely unaware of the level of hate on these boards for the class. I just liked the idea of it, and started building one. I only googled my way to the boards for spell advice - which is when I discovered all the dislike. It seems to revolve (partly, anyways) around their ridiculous ACs, being already high at base, then buffed into oblivion by the mage armor and shield spells - but I'm not sure you guys are right on this.

Firstly, mage armor - the consensus seems to be that it stacks with the eidolons armor bonus, but I don't see why. Same type bonuses don't stack, and the eidolon gets an armor bonus (APG59), that matches the bonus from mage armor by lvl 5, then quickly outpaces it. I'm not sure why mage armor should/can stack with this bonus, as it clearly says "armor bonus" on the chart, and mage armor provides an armor bonus as well. I can see casting it before lvl5, to bump your AB from 2 to 4, but they still wouldn't stack, you'd just take the higher of your two bonuses (mage armor's).

Secondly, shield. The synth gets a shield bonus at lvl 4 from the shielded meld ability (UM80). Again, I don't see why this should stack with the spell "shield". Also again, I could see casting shield on yourself to bump it from a 2 to 4, but (again again), you don't add them, just take the higher of the two bonuses (again again again, the bonus from the spell)...also you'd get the ability to laugh manically as magic missiles bounced off of your quasi-real monster-armor. However, the greater version of this ability matches shield, and that comes at lvl12.

Anyway, I think with this clarification the AC of the synth becomes less of a problem, as at lvl 5 my (not completely optimized) synth has a 23. High for that lvl, but not the ungodly, impossible-to-hit-at-this-lvl high of the mid-30s I've been seeing.

So, any input would be nice, if I'm wrong here I'd like to know, although I don't see right now how I am.

[MrSin]

The armor you get from the eidolon/synth armor can actually stack with mage armor. You can choose to apply the scaling armor bonus to natural armor or your armor bonus and split it however you'd like. You then apply it to natural armor and it still stacks with enhancement bonuses to natural armor such as barkskin, and you cast mage armor to have a nearly all day +4 bonus. The scaling natural armor won't stack with natural armor you have, but likely you won't have much if any as a PC summoner.

[Anzyr]

Well... your error lies in not reading carefully (which is crucial *especially* with summoners). The Eidolons armor bonus is reproduced below:

The number noted here is the eidolon’s base total armor bonus. This bonus may be split between an armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the summoner. This number is modified by the eidolon’s base form and some options available through its evolution pool. An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the summoner’s connection to the eidolon.

Did you spot the key words in the above paragraph? Well in case you missed them they were "This bonus may be split between an armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided be the Summoner." My preferred split is 0 Armor bonus and X natural armor where X is the armor bonus available. Because the armor bonus is all natural armor bonus, my Eidolon can benefit from Mage Armor.

As to Shield, you are correct here both are shield bonuses, but you should cast it for the increased AC it will offer until you hit 12th level. If someone is stacking both for +6-8 they are in error.

[DonDuckie]

It gets a bonus to Armor Class, this bonus can be divided as the summoner chooses between armor bonus and natural armor bonus. Most choose natural armor because it stacks with mage armor.

[Brennon Osiris]

MrSin wrote:

The armor you get from the eidolon/synth armor can actually stack with mage armor. You can choose to apply the scaling armor bonus to natural armor or your armor bonus and split it however you'd like. You then apply it to natural armor and it still stacks with enhancement bonuses to natural armor such as barkskin, and you cast mage armor to have a nearly all day +4 bonus. The scaling natural armor won't stack with natural armor you have, but likely you won't have much if any as a PC summoner.

Oh, I didn't see that. Didn't bother to read the description for "armor bonus" in the APG. Thank you.

But, to nit-pick, why would barkskin stack with the existing natural armor? I thought same type ac bonuses didn't stack?

...for that matter, why does the scaling armor bonus from the chart and the natural armor you get from your base form stack?

[MrSin]

Brennon Osiris wrote:

But, to nit-pick, why would barkskin stack with the existing natural armor? I thought same type ac bonuses didn't stack?

Barkskin gives an enhancement bonus to your natural armor. That enhancement bonus will stack with everything except other enhancement bonuses to natural armor. In the same way, your +1 amulet of natural armor won't stack with barkskin because they're both enhancement bonuses, but it will with any natural armor you already have.

Brennon Osiris wrote:

...for that matter, why does the scaling armor bonus from the chart and the natural armor you get from your base form stack?

Answered in the text. The total armor bonus you have is that scaling bonus modified by the base form and evolutions. Its not one bonus + the other as two separate bonuses, its one total, if that makes sense.