Confused about half-elves


Rules Questions


I've done a search here about this but the answers seem to conflict with the errata I've read, namely the following:

Quote:

Can a half-elf select human racial favored class options?

Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).

Edit 9/26/13: This is a reversal of an earlier ruling. This resolves a discrepancy between this FAQ, another APG FAQ, and a Core Rulebook FAQ.

So if I wanted an elven trait, say weapon familiarity, how would that work?


The traits that are refered to in the quote are the traits that was added in advanced player's guide giving each character two "character traits".
You do not get to pick "racial traits" from the elf or the human. Unless of course you pick the "character trait" called "adopted" that allows you to pick a "racial trait" from a race.


Thanks but I can't find "Character Traits" anywhere in the PRD. Only Basic, Campaign, Religion, Regional and Race.


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That is incorrect.

There are two types of traits. Everyone wishes Paizo had picked something other than Traits for the new Drawback/Trait mechanic.

Racial traits (Capital R, Small t) are what you find in the racial write up. Like Elven Weapon Proficiencies, Human Bonus Feat, etc. These cannot be switched between races.

Traits (racial) (Capital T, small r) are Background Traits that can only be taken by certain races (like Warrior of Old is an Elven Trait (racial)). Half-Elves can take Half-Elf Traits (racial), Elf Traits (racial), and Human Traits (racial). However, if a Half-Elf wanted to take say, Toothy (A Trait (racial) for Orcs), he'd have to take the Adopted trait.

I hope this helps clear this up.

Also, Half-Elves can take Half-Elf favored class bonuses, Human Favored Class Bonuses, Elven Favored Class Bonuses, Human only Feats, Elf only feats, Half-Elf only feats. They can take Human Archetypes, Elf Archetypes, and Elf-Elf Archetypes. If a piece of equipment is Human only, elf only, or half-elf only, a half-elf can use it.


Thank Dog wrote:
Thanks but I can't find "Character Traits" anywhere in the PRD. Only Basic, Campaign, Religion, Regional and Race.

Ah, nevermind, found it. Thanks.


mdt wrote:
I hope this helps clear this up.

Mud, as clear it is as :)

I think I've got it now. As a half-elf it'd be ok for me to take Adopted (elven weapon familiarity) & Exile, yeah?


No. The Adopted trait lets you take Trait (racial), not Racial traits.


ZanThrax wrote:
No. The Adopted trait lets you take Trait (racial), not Racial traits.

Ah, well crap. Seems I have to burn a feat or lose adaptability just to get a longbow as a bard :/


As Zanthrax said, Adopted is only for Trait (racial) entries, not Racial trait entries.

I really wish Paizo would change those to Advantages and Disadvantages, or edges and flaws. They shouldn't have two different things being traits. blech. Confusion abounds.

Thank dog, it comes down to this :

If the trait is in the Racial section of the Core Rule Book, then it's a Racial Trait. And Adopted is no good for it. If it's in the Advanced Player's Guide under Traits, then Adopted is fine for it.


Thank Dog wrote:
ZanThrax wrote:
No. The Adopted trait lets you take Trait (racial), not Racial traits.
Ah, well crap. Seems I have to burn a feat or lose adaptability just to get a longbow as a bard :/

Heirloom Weapon Trait will net you a Longbow. And proficiency with it. But you're stuck with THAT longbow, no other longbow. You'll have to boost that one over time.

EDIT : Link


OHHHHH! That makes a lot more sense. I never knew that "adopted" was meant to give access to Trait (racial). I thought it gave access to Racial traits like elven weapon proficiency. But this makes a lot more sense because it means you can't choose statups (which is a Racial trait).


Lifat wrote:
OHHHHH! That makes a lot more sense. I never knew that "adopted" was meant to give access to Trait (racial). I thought it gave access to Racial traits like elven weapon proficiency. But this makes a lot more sense because it means you can't choose statups (which is a Racial trait).

Yep, it all comes down to using the same term twice for two different things. :) Don't feel bad, it happens a lot.


Good explanation mdt.


Yeah, that definitely needs changing. Lol, I bet you guys get asked this question a lot. I honestly did do a search for it but that just confused me even more :)


I really wish they would have just called them "backgrounds" instead. It would clear up a lot if confusing language.


mdt wrote:
Lifat wrote:
OHHHHH! That makes a lot more sense. I never knew that "adopted" was meant to give access to Trait (racial). I thought it gave access to Racial traits like elven weapon proficiency. But this makes a lot more sense because it means you can't choose statups (which is a Racial trait).
Yep, it all comes down to using the same term twice for two different things. :) Don't feel bad, it happens a lot.

I don't feel bad about it. This is what happens when you try to be helpful on Rules Question forum. Sometimes you end up in large and long discussion, sometimes you give useful advice and sometimes (like this) you instantly learn something from others. :D


Grimmy wrote:
Good explanation mdt.

*bow*


Lifat wrote:
mdt wrote:
Lifat wrote:
OHHHHH! That makes a lot more sense. I never knew that "adopted" was meant to give access to Trait (racial). I thought it gave access to Racial traits like elven weapon proficiency. But this makes a lot more sense because it means you can't choose statups (which is a Racial trait).
Yep, it all comes down to using the same term twice for two different things. :) Don't feel bad, it happens a lot.
I don't feel bad about it. This is what happens when you try to be helpful on Rules Question forum. Sometimes you end up in large and long discussion, sometimes you give useful advice and sometimes (like this) you instantly learn something from others. :D

Yep, every once in awhile I realize I've gotten a 3.5 or house rule stuck in my head as RAW. And then there's new stuff like Traits vs Traits. :)

Grand Lodge

Actually, there are Race traits, and then Racial traits.

Racial traits are things that are granted by virtue of being said race.

Like a Half-Orc's Darkvision.

Race traits are a subtype of traits you can select at character creation.

Like the Outcast trait.


I prefer my nomenclature BBT, it at least puts the racial and trait fields in opposite order, makes it easier to remember.

Grand Lodge

Well, each to their own.

The Race/Racial traits is how my fellow players, DM, and I remember, so I figured I would give an alternative method for remembering.


I don't think it is a question of forgetting but of clarification. People have simply been confused by the wording of the "Adopted trait" and the fact that trait are used both when it is Character Traits and Race Traits.


I liked mdt's phrasing as I can never remember (without looking it up) which are Race Traits and which are Racial Traits.

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