Deity of self-reliance?


Advice


I'm trying to find an appropriate deity for a character who grew up hard in Oppara and has come to believe that only those who are strong enough to take what they need to survive should survive.


Gorum.

Gorum is a god of conflict and battle. He is not a subtle god, if you fight and struggle whether for survival or glory you pay homage to the Lord in Iron. Those unwilling to fight are beneath contempt.


Phrased that way, he fits much better than I realized. The last sentence perfectly captures his attitude.


Alternately, Irori as a Lawful Evil worshipper - pursuit of perfection of the self and absolute discipline over all other concerns, least being the petty 'morality' of those who lack the will to do what is necessary.


Not really "self-reliant," though, huh?

A farmer who works to raise his own food is self-reliant.

Somebody who takes what he needs through strength and believes that only people like himself deserve to survive, is at best a bully, at worst a tyrant. And taking is not self-reliance. It's reliance on others; they don't have, he can't take.


I'd imagine that the god of self-reliance scorns followers... so that's why you probably never heard of him. Along the same lines, have your character be an anti-theist. He doesn't need no divine authority to babysit him.


Bruunwald wrote:

Not really "self-reliant," though, huh?

A farmer who works to raise his own food is self-reliant.

Somebody who takes what he needs through strength and believes that only people like himself deserve to survive, is at best a bully, at worst a tyrant. And taking is not self-reliance. It's reliance on others; they don't have, he can't take.

The farmer who will not defend the fruits of his sweat and blood deserves none of the nectar.


Ragnvald Hrolfson wrote:
Bruunwald wrote:

Not really "self-reliant," though, huh?

A farmer who works to raise his own food is self-reliant.

Somebody who takes what he needs through strength and believes that only people like himself deserve to survive, is at best a bully, at worst a tyrant. And taking is not self-reliance. It's reliance on others; they don't have, he can't take.

The farmer who will not defend the fruits of his sweat and blood deserves none of the nectar.

That is not self reliance. That is 'Might Makes Right', and is, as Bruunwald stated, the exact opposite of self reliance.


chaoseffect wrote:
I'd imagine that the god of self-reliance scorns followers... so that's why you probably never heard of him. Along the same lines, have your character be an anti-theist. He doesn't need no divine authority to babysit him.

I very much like this idea. A self-reliant character doesn't need the approval of some 'god'.

"What is a god other than just another powerful creature? I don't need their love or their pity."


karossii wrote:
Ragnvald Hrolfson wrote:
Bruunwald wrote:

Not really "self-reliant," though, huh?

A farmer who works to raise his own food is self-reliant.

Somebody who takes what he needs through strength and believes that only people like himself deserve to survive, is at best a bully, at worst a tyrant. And taking is not self-reliance. It's reliance on others; they don't have, he can't take.

The farmer who will not defend the fruits of his sweat and blood deserves none of the nectar.
That is not self reliance. That is 'Might Makes Right', and is, as Bruunwald stated, the exact opposite of self reliance.

The farmer can bicker the meaning to the lady of graves. If he cannot defend what is his he's reliant on the will of the gods to protect him.

The hunter spends years honing his craft to take his prey silently, without warning, to feed his family and earn his coin. The farmer spends years honing his craft, to turn dirt, water, and seed into food for his family and coin for his farm. I honed my blade upon the bones of my enemies and the cries of their women for years surviving battle after battle in my path of gore in the service to the Lord in Iron. We are all "self reliant". But only those with the will to defend themselves have any right to it. Call it what you will. Even a cornered mouse will blind the cat in defense of his life. Gorum will honor all who fight.


La'Vantis Tuen wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
I'd imagine that the god of self-reliance scorns followers... so that's why you probably never heard of him. Along the same lines, have your character be an anti-theist. He doesn't need no divine authority to babysit him.

I very much like this idea. A self-reliant character doesn't need the approval of some 'god'.

"What is a god other than just another powerful creature? I don't need their love or their pity."

Oh that's a good one. Rahadoumi are very much about the whole "no gods, only man" deal.


You need a Golarion equivalent of Crom from the Hyborian Age.


Ragnvald Hrolfson wrote:
karossii wrote:
Ragnvald Hrolfson wrote:
Bruunwald wrote:

Not really "self-reliant," though, huh?

A farmer who works to raise his own food is self-reliant.

Somebody who takes what he needs through strength and believes that only people like himself deserve to survive, is at best a bully, at worst a tyrant. And taking is not self-reliance. It's reliance on others; they don't have, he can't take.

The farmer who will not defend the fruits of his sweat and blood deserves none of the nectar.
That is not self reliance. That is 'Might Makes Right', and is, as Bruunwald stated, the exact opposite of self reliance.

The farmer can bicker the meaning to the lady of graves. If he cannot defend what is his he's reliant on the will of the gods to protect him.

The hunter spends years honing his craft to take his prey silently, without warning, to feed his family and earn his coin. The farmer spends years honing his craft, to turn dirt, water, and seed into food for his family and coin for his farm. I honed my blade upon the bones of my enemies and the cries of their women for years surviving battle after battle in my path of gore in the service to the Lord in Iron. We are all "self reliant". But only those with the will to defend themselves have any right to it. Call it what you will. Even a cornered mouse will blind the cat in defense of his life. Gorum will honor all who fight.

You're assuming the farmer wouldn't defend himself. And everyone knows what happens when you make assumptions...

Self reliant means, by definition, you do not rely upon others for anything. It means you could be dropped in the midst of a rural area with no farms or villages to plunder, and make your way without relying on others.

Even the farmer in the examples above is, as you pointed out, to many degrees, not self reliant. (Of course, I never put forward that example, just showed how yours is just as, if not more flawed).

Your described hunter honed his craft to serve others, apparently; if he is reliant upon their coin and the 'spoils of war' as it were... and no servant is self reliant.

A true hunter would be self reliant, could live on his own, finding water and sources of food, hunting and/or tending that food, defending himself, etc.


Ha! Then let him find his way alone in the woods if he chooses.

Shadow Lodge

The first thing your post makes me think of is the river kingdoms. "You have what you hold" and all that.

As far as gods I can see arguments for Calistria, Erastil, Gorum, Hanspur and Cayden Cailean depending on the rest of the flavor of your character and where you want them to go. There's probably an emperyal lord that fits the bill too, since it seems like there are about a thousand of them.


I'd say Gorum or non at all. For the latter take the godless healing feat. A guy like that doesn't even be an atheist or nihilist. he could well be someone who accepts that there are gods but decided that they should leave him alone as he leaves them alone. Self reliance in the way of "help yourself then you need no god".


I don't mean this to sound as a plug or anything but I made a demon lord (If you're into the evil thing) whose portfolio includes freedom and survival. Here

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