Okay. I have, like many here, been playing some form of pen and paper dungeon game for at least fifteen years... and I have a nagging question that still haunts out dungeoneering to this day. Hew exactly does light work?
First... How is light from a torch shed? I know its a 20 and 40 foot radius... but centered on what? the Torch? the corner of the square the torchbearer is occupying? All the corners? I have a diagram with all the possible options I could imagine. Could someone point to the one that is the one? Now... since all of the light/darkness spells require you to touch an object... They should work in the exact same way.
B assumes that it sheds light from the square it occupies and it counts the square it occupies as the first 5 feet of the radius.
C assumes fireball rules on a single corner of the square of the torchbearer. I would say it would be the corner that the torchbearer is weilding the torch towards (since it's in one hand, and it has to be to one side at least a little)
A assumes it sheds light from all four corners of the square...
Now how about tactical light?
I have a diagram...
The Map Is Here
So I will skip straight to a hypothetical situation. We have two rooms, designated as Room 1 (R1) and Room 2 (R2) by lime green, and bound by walls as shown with lime green lines. (in this I assume torch B from my first diagram, since it is the most conservative).
Two players (of import) are included.
1: A Level 7 Oracle with Darkvision, Designated in red by P1.
A level 7 rogue with Low-light Vision, designated in red by P2.
Two enemies of import are designated in blue by an E1, and an E2. They are spellcasting enemies, and have some form of see in darkness, darksense, or darkvision. It doesn't matter, but it should be noted... they have undead traits, and thus are immune to criticals and precision damage... making the rogue borderline useless... GJ DM.
There are four important lighting effects in the area.
In yellow, we have a Daylight spell, cast by our oracle. Its AoE is shown in yellow.
In Purple we have a Darkness spell, cast by E1. Its AoE is shown in purple.
In Orange we have two, Ever-burning Torches, created by clerics, with Level 3 Continual Flame effects, and dropped by the daring Rogue... who had little else to do in his first three rounds. Their AoE for normal light is shown in Orange. I do not include the additional 20 feet of dim light, as it almost fills the room, and would make things very hairy.
So here is the basic order of things that occurred, for those that will ask the inevitable questions.
The rogue, stumbling upon a locked door, detects no traps, and picks the lock of the door. Since the dungeon is unlit, he has an Ever-burning Torch (as provided by the previous occupants of the temple we are now raiding, why thank you, don't mind if I do borrow these...)
Round 1:
The rogue burgles through the door and stumbles upon two spectral enemies. Rolling initiative, he goes last... Oracle goes first. Enemies between the two.
Oracle wanders up flush to the transitory border of rooms 1 and 2 (ie. the door that is now opened.) Casts a spell. and passes.
Enemies turn, and pop two touch spells on the rogue. His high dex saves him, and both miss.
Other party members succeeding in their perceptions to detect combat, roll initiative, and come in above the rogue... still... They get their actions, which is to move towards the sound.
The rogue, still in the threshold, free-action drops his Ever-burning torch in an adjacent square in front of him, and moves to the currently listed location, free-action quick-drawing one of his Kukrii into his main-hand and burning a standard action to prepare an attack on the first enemy to get within range. (since it would be foolish to charge into combat without backup, yet).
Round 2:
The oracle informs us that these monsters are quite dangerous, and we should not die! He casts a second defensive spell and passes.
One of the specters, E2 moves a bit, and casts another touch spell against the oracle... rolling low and missing. (now at designated position)
Now here is where it gets fuzzy... E1 moves towards a table, at his currently designated location, and casts Darkness, touching a candelabra on the table(not shown).
The other party members catch up into room 1, but are unaware of the details of the combat. The Archer-Fighter moves adjacent to the Oracle and assesses the situation The Witch lags behind.
The rogue, presumable blinded, move-action draws out another of the Ever-burning torches in his bag, and free-action drops it on the square next to him. The Rogue asks "Can I see?"
Round 3:
The oracle casts light on an arrow, and spends his move action to present it to the Fighter (i dunno how this works... it does. Shut up)
The Fighter, now with the ability to see (presumably?) Fires a few arrows at E2, and finally draws and fires the Light Arrow at the ground in front of E2. Not striking an enemy, and not dealing damage, it sticks in the ground and sheds light out 60 feet (mathematically beyond the bounds of the walls, but not past them) It now rests where it is designated on the map.
The witch lags behind.
The Enemies do stuff
The rogue asks... "can I see?"
So. Here are the questions.
What is the light level at these given spots in room 2 on Round 2? That is, what is the light level, before the daylight spell was cast?
P2?
E2?
E1?
T1?
T2?
I know the spells do not counter each other... I know they do not dispel each other. But how is the suppression of the effects calculated? Since D1 envelops T2, is the torch itself completely suppressed? Is T1's light suppressed by the darkness? What about the 6 squares where the light from T1 and the light from T2 overlap? I know they do not stack, but they overlap!!!
If you get cursed by two spells, and have two separate effects that reduce your intelligence by 7 (high roll for a level 3 spell) and by 8 (low roll for a level 7 spell), respectively, if you dispel the one that reduces it by 7, is your intelligence, then, only reduced by 1? Of course not... your Int score does not change until the level 7 spell is dispelled as well.
Likewise... In these 6 squares where the light overlaps, we have two level 3 (at least level 2) light spells working, and only one level 2 darkness spell working. You are not going to get two cancellations out of one spell here. It just is not mathematically, logically, or generally functional if you do.
Complicated? Yes. Exhaustive? Very.
I thought about the undead thing too, but reading the details, they are spectres.
An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality.
Corporeal undead can be sneak attacked.
As for the map, well, I got lost, but here's the answer in a nutshell: Higher level magical light completely negates lower level darkness, and vice versa. Spell level, not caster level, is the king of the lighting game.
Daylight and clerical Continual Light are both higher level spells (level 3) than the Darkness spells (level 2) so they negate the darkness in their area of effect and then raise the lighting level to whatever those spells raise it to. Outside of those magically lit areas, the Darkness spells suppress all non-magical light (candles, torches, etc.) and then lower the light level one step.
If those were arcane Continual Light spells (level 2), they would negate the Darkness but also be negated, leaving their overlapping areas at whatever non-magical light level exists there.
Light does not stack, and overlapping doesn't matter - they either suppress or get suppressed, regardless of the number of sources.
It is mathematically logical here that one Daylight spell can suppress two (or more) Darkness spells. Your analogy is interesting, but consider this: If that room had two campfires going, or 20 campfires going, and I flood the room with water, the water can put out every campfire, not just some of them. Assuming I really flood it and don't run out of water. Daylight does the same thing with the multiple Darkness spells.
I would also appreciate anyone pointing me to an appropriate post that already answers any of these questions...
Just trying to figure this out, as the core boook, and none of the expansions seem to know.
(the rogue is a little less useless, in pathfinder he can sneak attack undead)Unless specifically called otherwise, all other creatures, such as Undead, Constructs, and Plants can be sneak attacked and affected by critical hits.
Sources: Paizo PRD. Bestiary pg. 306-313
Yeah, I meant "They have incorporeal traits, and are thus immune to crits and precision based damage."
I'm just used to saying undead, and lop the whole lot into the whole "we don't take crits, and forget yo' sneaky sneaky" categories.
I would also appreciate anyone pointing me to an appropriate post that already answers any of these questions...
Sure!
Look to the post directly above yours...