I currently have a new team I just started with, consisting of a level 1 barbarian, level 1 druid, and level 1 sorcerer. Not surprisingly the barbarian is doing pretty great in combat but the druid and sorcerer are mostly helpless right now (with HP, AC, etc, not to mention the damage they deal)
What is some good advice on how to balance out enemies (etc) so that the barbarian isn't bored cutting things in half with a longsword (+4 to hit, 1d10+3 ... or +6 to hit and 1d10+5 when he's raging) but at the same time the Sorcerer and Druid aren't swinging and missing every round?
First, it might help to know a bit more about the three builds. Why is the Ranger, a full-BAB and d10 hit die class having such trouble?
Why is the Sorcerer not using spells? If they are, what spells are they using? What Bloodline?
Give us more information to help us help you.
I'm in agreement with Lamontius; we need a few more details.
From the information right here, it seems maybe they were poorly designed characters?
Vary up your monsters...
- Diminutive Swarms will be completely immune to whatever your barbarian can throw at them (low level players hate these) but your sorcerer should be able to handle them without much trouble
- Skeletons and Zombies have DR against specific weapon damage types, toss whichever your barbarian can't handle at them
- Create an opposing group of adventurers, have that group be well balanced and use potions etc smartly
Those are just a few guesses. You might want to include some quick stat blocks on the players including the little bit you gave about the barbarian (+4 to hit, 1d10+3 ... or +6 to hit and 1d10+5 when he's raging). It would be good to know things like AC, HP, hit and damage. I would also suggest that you let us know what kinds of encounters you have been throwing against them. Last thought... who is healing this crew, and has there been any problem keeping them alive?
After reading the other posts... I would also suggest adding what archetypes if any the players have chosen. Sometimes an archetype gives up a critical feature that unbalances the group. I have seen this happen a number of times.
Apologies. Their character sheets can be found here.
Additionally, as it is likely apparent, I am very new to Pathfinder and have never GM'd before... hence I'm asking what is likely a n00b question. Apologies for that as well.
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Part of the problem with the Ranger appears to be that he is a druid.
Part of the problem with the Ranger appears to be that he is a druid.
HAH! Great catch. Ugh, we're all new to Pathfinder, so this is difficult for us all to get our heads around for now.
Updated the original post.
Why are the Sorcerer and Druid swinging weapons in combat? Where does the Druid's animal companion factor in? Why is a d6 hit die 10-Con Sorceror even trying to get into melee combat at first level?
Why are the Sorcerer and Druid swinging weapons in combat? Where does the Druid's animal companion factor in? Why is a d6 hit die 10-Con Sorceror even trying to get into melee combat at first level?
Neither are trying to get into melee combat. Thankfully they have those wits about them! They are using either ranged or spells. However, both feel tame and unhappy compared to the melee damage the barbarian is doing at level 1. They feel their spell sets are weak, that if they get attacked they'll be insta-zero'd, and that comparatively they aren't just anywhere near as powerful / interesting in combat.
I checked it out, and I think there might be an "expectations" issue here.
The barbarian is GREAT at murder. Always will. On the other hand, sorcerers are only great at murder if they are geared to do so, which is HARD at low level. It doesnt halp that his spells are mostly non-combat related. The druid is also not built for combat, but his tiger should be doing nicely (under normal circumstances)
So maybe put a bunch of non-combat encounters, ways to let the players shine other than combat, because they wont be able to contribute as much as the barbarian at low level (in combat).
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Alright well... Encounter wise, they are level 1, so I find at low levels, many enemies have ac 15 or so which is hard for all but full BAB characters to hit in general.
The Sorceror is probably going to feel put out because of his spell choices. Don;t get me wrong, unseen servant is great, but charm person is an iffy spell and sorcerors have to be incredibly picky about their spell lists, least til you figure out all the little tricks to get around the system. So he might have to wait til he get's more spells known to reach his groove.
The Druid can be relevant just by flanking and such which can make a large diffrence early on. His spell choices aren;t set in stone like the Sorcerors and he can always jsut drop a Summon spell which is always semi relevant in a fight.
I can also tell you went with rolled stats. The barbarian has above average stats, the druid has somewhat above average while the sorceror has also slightly above average but it;s spread so thinly as to be irrelevant, so his spells are easy to resist to boot. Part of why I dislike rolled stats is that disparity.
The sorceror as such will want to get headbands of charisma asap, since he'll be capped at 4th level spells with his current charisma, and in the meantime may wish to focus on spells that do not have saves. Many of the best spells do not have saves anyways.
Encounterwise, the sorceror is going to have difficulties feeling relevant with all the things against him. The Druid and tiger combo can manage but the barbarian will feel at home because fighting is what barbs do best. Try mixing things up with social encounters and such, it may be the one area that the sorc might be able to excel for awhile until he get's more spells.
You have to understand that at low levels it's not easy to make a sorcerer or druid fighting with weapons the equal of a barbarian... It's okay if the Barbarian shines right now, the Sorc and Druid will likely outclass him later.
That said, you can still do a few things.
1. Fewer encounters per day, let the sorc/druid use up their powerful spells and rest and restore them.
2. Terrain advantages. Difficult terrain can make it hard for the barbarian to close to melee range, allowing your sorc/druid to attack with ranged attacks or spells for a few rounds before the barbarian gets there. You could do the same effect by simply starting combats very far away. Like, PCs and enemies 100+ ft away from each other.
3. creatures with DR/bludgeoning or DR/Piercing. Would take a heavy chunk out of the Barbarians damage output.
The main thing for the Druid and especially the Sorcerer is spell selection.
If they are simply trying to put up big damage numbers, they're going to be disappointed.
If, however, the Sorcerer concentrates on selecting spells that have wide and varied applications such as Grease, the sorcerer could then:
1. Grease the ground under an opponent, causing them to fall prone and basically win the fight for the barbarian, who is now facing an opponent who is lying down.
2. Grease the opponent's weapon, causing it to slip from their hand and basically win the fight by disarming them.
3. Grease an ally who is being grappled to help them escape the hold.
4. Grease a divine caster's focus, causing it to drop from their hand and preventing them from casting spells.
All of those tactics are valuable and some of them will flat-out win a fight, but they don't necessarily even do any straight-out damage.
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We're happy to help out new players, Shivian! Welcome! :)
I'm going to focus on your Sorcerer.
1. He seems to have made some pretty suboptimal choices for his spells known. Especially Unseen Servant: not a combat choice at all. And Charm Person can be good, but only against humanoids.
I would recommend letting him re-select his spells known. And to increase his combat effectiveness, he should pick either Grease, Sleep, or Color Spray as one of them.
He needs to keep in mind that he's not a wizard. His Spells Known slots are very precious. If he wants to be a utility caster, he should use wands, scrolls, and potions to make that happen. His Spells Known should be for his real workhorses that he expects to use many times every day.
If he wants to have good low-level utility spells later on when he's higher level, he can swap them out at even levels.
Also, generally speaking, since he only has a 14 on Charisma, his main casting stat, the Save DCs on his spells are going to be relatively low. He might want to focus more on spells that use attack rolls rather than spells that use Saves.
2. He doesn't seem to be taking advantage of his Elven weapon proficiencies. He would be better off with a longbow instead of a crossbow since he won't have to use move actions to reload -- or even a shortbow, even with the lower damage. He should also pick up a longsword or a rapier just in case someone gets up in his business when he's out of spells (though he does have those dragon claws too, I guess, but they don't do much damage).
3. He should think about buying some cheap consumable magic items to help him with combat. I would especially recommend Mage Armor to help out his AC in combat, on some scrolls or a wand (he'll get it as a freebie bloodline spell at 3rd level, so he might not need a fully-charged wand). And if he really likes using Unseen Servant, he can get that as a wand, too.
4. It looks like he took Scribe Scroll as his first level feat. I'm not saying that this is a bad choice -- but it's much better for wizards than it is for sorcerers, because you can only create scrolls of the spells that you know (wizards can use their spellbooks for this). If you think about this for a sorcerer, since you're a spontaneous caster, this means that scrolls are just additional spells-per-day that you have to pay money for. You don't get a lot of utility out of that choice, since you're only making scrolls out of spells that you could already cast.
If he does want to stick with Scribe Scroll, he doesn't need skill points in Profession (Scribe) to use it. Spellcraft works just fine by itself.
That's all I can think of for right now. Happy gaming, Shivian! And I hope this advice helps!
Grease is a pretty versatile spell. I have however seen some unfortunate combinations (never again black tentacles... NEVER AGAIN THE BLACK TENTACLES).
This is an expectations issue more then anything else. Especially at low levels, casters arent supposed to do lots of damage. That is what barbarians and fighters are for. They help the barbarian by buffing him, debuffing enemies, droping control spells (like grease for instance) out to hinder enemies and possibly keep them from overwhelming the barbarian. He is supposed to be the meat shield between the squishy casters and the bad guys. Though the druids cat companion should be pretty good in a fight also, and eventually will be really good in a fight, especially when buffed.
Then when the druid gets wild shape and the sorceror gets some of his more powerful spells (like black tentacles for instance) the roles sort of reverse and the barbarian there is to support the casters laying into the bad guys, though he will also be just as a good at dishing out tons of damage.
Is the Druid the only healer here or do you have an NPC healer following them around?
How were stats generated? The sorcerer's stats seem low compared to the other two.
Thanks for all the replies so far! The sorcerer will be allowed to repick his spells, I'm going to help the other guys who rolled lower ability scores out by letting them up a few (ones as noted by people's recommendations), and I'll look for other ways to balance out combat scenarios. Thanks again guys!
Another thing is that as casters the druid and sorcerer will catch up to the barbarian in effectiveness over time. They just wont effect the battle in the same way.