| philsf31 |
I like the Shadowdancer prestige class concept; darting in and out of the shadows unseen. However, most of the class's skills are very situational unless you can create your own darkness, mostly through the 2nd-lvl spell of the same name. Reading through the classes that have access to Darkness, I came across the Dark Tapestry Oracle mystery, which seemed to match both mechanically and thematically.
1. I'll obviously need at least 4 levels of Oracle to get Darkness. Since I'll need to be 6th before I start SD (5 ranks Stealth), I'd considered getting a level or more of rogue to get some sneak attack dice. Will this hurt me more than it helps?
2. My thought was to take the Clouded Vision curse--as I understand it, by choosing Pierce the Veil for my first revelation at level 1, the curse is basically nullified, correct? And I'll get another 30ft of darkvision once I start SD too, right?
3. The most important spell to pick up would be Darkness, plus Dusk of Twilight that I get from the mystery. What other spells might work well with the concept?
4. I definitely want to get Spring Attack as one of my feats; with Mobility already being required for SD, it makes sense to go one more step to open up opportunities to pop out of the shadows, attack, and hide again. Are there other feats that would fit well?
Reynard_the_fox
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I have bad news and good news.
Bad news: Multiclassing with full casters is almost universally bad. Not to mention multiclassing two 3/4 BAB classes. You won't be able to hit things or cast spells very well.
Good news: Tieflings can use Darkness as a 1/day ability, which can then be boosted by feats like Fiendish Darkness and others. That means you don't need to be a caster at all. They also get a +2 bonus to stealth.
If you intend to multiclass to Shadowdancer, I would highly recommend you take primarily full-BAB classes for your first few levels. Rangers are usually a good fit, and give you plenty of skill ranks. Fighters work well too since they give you bonus feats, and I've even heard of Batman-esque Paladin/Shadowdancer builds. (In fact, a fighter might be best, since you can take Combat Reflexes, Dodge, and Mobility as bonus feats, and use your regular feats to boost your Tiefling ability.)
If you want Sneak Attack, a level of Vivisectionist Alchemist is great - you get 1d6 sneak attack, a mutagen (which lasts 10 minutes and can be prepared again in an hour), and a handful of useful first-level extracts like Shield, Enlarge/Reduce Person, and Disguise Self. Since you need Combat Reflexes anyway, using a reach weapon and Enlarge Person could basically give you a free hit on anything moving within 20 ft of you! (Not very sneaky though. On the other hand, Reduce Person gives you a +5 to stealth between the size bonus and dex increase.)
PS: I would recommend taking one of the variant Tiefling heritages that boosts Charisma instead of subtracts it, as it's the key skill for several Shadowdancer abilities. Assuming you can get your GM to let you keep Darkness as your SLA.
| MurphysParadox |
Regarding the curse and the revelation (question 2):
The curse limits your vision to 30 feet but you get darkvision. Pierce the Veil lets you have 60 feet of darkvision. The phrasing of "You cannot see anything beyond 30 feet" is a hard limit that the revelation does not override. You may have 60' of darkvision but you're not capable of seeing anything further anyway. And then at level 5 (or 6 if you only go for 4 levels of Oracle), the curse opens up to 60 feet anyway.
It is pointless to take Pierce the Veil; the curse provides the darkvision and (eventually) the range.
| Krinn |
Consider ninja for poison use instead of trapfinding, or ranger (trapper + guide archetypes) to not lose too much BAB progression if you're focused on hitting foes. 2nd level of ninja is cool for ninja trick and CHA-based ki pool!
Pierce the veil only gives you darkvision, it doesn't allow you to see any farther than your curse allows. I would choose the deaf curse, so any spells you cast is automatically silenced and that ought to be useful while being sneaky.
Obscuring mist is great to hide when facing monsters with darkvision.
You could look up the dimensional dervish line of feats. RAW they don't work with shadowdancer, but since your ability is still sorta limited in uses per day, you might be able to convince your GM to let you pick those feats.
| philsf31 |
Regarding the curse and the revelation (question 2):
The curse limits your vision to 30 feet but you get darkvision. Pierce the Veil lets you have 60 feet of darkvision. The phrasing of "You cannot see anything beyond 30 feet" is a hard limit that the revelation does not override. You may have 60' of darkvision but you're not capable of seeing anything further anyway. And then at level 5 (or 6 if you only go for 4 levels of Oracle), the curse opens up to 60 feet anyway.
It is pointless to take Pierce the Veil; the curse provides the darkvision and (eventually) the range.
Looking again at the curse, I suppose the extra darkvision from SD probably wouldn't stack either--"as if you have darkvision". If I do end up doing an Oracle/SD, I'd probably pick deafened as Krinn suggested.
I have bad news and good news.
Good news: Tieflings can use Darkness as a 1/day ability, which can then be boosted by feats like Fiendish Darkness and others. That means you don't need to be a caster at all. They also get a +2 bonus to stealth.
PS: I would recommend taking one of the variant Tiefling heritages that boosts Charisma instead of subtracts it, as it's the key skill for several Shadowdancer abilities. Assuming you can get your GM to let you keep Darkness as your SLA.
Is this a third party variant you are referencing? I can't seem to find it in the ARG.
Reynard_the_fox
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It's from Pathfinder 25: The Bastards of Erebus, and featured on d20pfsrd.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fiendish-heritage
Deafened dark tapestry oracles do make excellent stealth-casters, but I still wouldn't combine it with Shadowcaster if I were you. At least, from an optimization standpoint, that is; if your game is a little more relaxed, go for flavor all the way.