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I really love the flavor of the Witch class, but I can't see enjoying playing one without multiclassing, since primarily being a controller isn't really my thing. I love caster classes -currently play a 4th level Air Elemental Sorcerer- so trying to make a dual-class Witch is something I've been thinking about. What I've considering is a Half-Elf dual classed as a Witch-Barbarian or Witch-Fighter. I'm aware it's easier to do this with a Wizard, but I pefer the Witch for thematic and RP reasons.
This PC would be for PF Society play, so I'd be using a 20 point build, 2 starting Traits and only planned to advance to level 12. I'm not sure if this is feasible, mostly because it's hard with that many points to get decent scores in INT, STR, DEX and CON. I figured though with some of the hexes and spells that the Witch can gain, it might be feasible to get some synergy between either of these 2 classes. I should probably mention that I prefer skilled PC's and always like to have at lease 1 decent social skill and aim for decent Perception. I'm also not a Min-Maxer and like balanced characters.
I'm really undecided what weapons would work best with this, as it could even be ranged if going with the Witch-Fighter build. Something I've learned with our tables though; there's no point going ranged unless you're willing to invest in Point Blank + Precise Shot. Some players have tried to encourage more coordinated fights, but playing with new players every session, fights often degenerate into swarms. I've toyed with the idea of 2-handed w/Reach which could be safer for this build, but I've never tried that with a caster and I'm uncertain how that might get in the way of casting.
I realize it would be easier starting this build as Barbarian or Fighter at level 1, but based on player dynamics at some of our tables I figure it's better to start as a struggling Witch than a smart but melee challenged tank. ;) I'm also looking to exploit the PFS rules of allowing changes before level 2, so I'm looking to dump Toughness once I level up. I haven't put a lot of thought beyond level 4, other than I'd increase either CON or INT at level 8 depending on which of those I increased at level 4.
Anyhow, this is what I have for the 1st 4 levels, minus any gear or damage stats. I'm sure I've made a lot of mistakes, but I'm looking more for suggestions on better or alternative ways to do this build. Any feedback is appreciated.
Race: Half-Elf, +2 INT, Skill Focus: Perception, Favored classes: Witch and Barbarian xOR Fighter.
Starting Stats: INT 17, STR 14, DEX 14, CON 13, CHA 10, WIS 10
**Level 1**
Class: Witch
Witches Familiar: Toad(+3 HP to master)
HP: 14 (+6 class, +3 Toughness, +1 Favored class, +1 CON, +3 toad familiar)
AC: 16 (+2 Dex, + 4 Mage Armor)
Saving Throws: Will +2, Fort +1, Reflex +2
Attack: Melee +2, Ranged +2
CMB: +2, CMD: 14
Starting Feat: Toughness
Traits: Observant (+1 Perception and class skill), Bullied (+1 Intimidation)
Patron: Elements
Hex: Slumber
Cantrips: Light, Detect Magic, Resistance, Stabilize
Level 1 spells: Mage Armor (2 preparations)
Skills: Knowledge Nature +7, Knowledge Aracna +7, Spellcraft +7, Intimidate +5,Perception +8
**Level 2**
Class: Barbarian
HP: 25 (+6+12 class, +2 Favored class pnts, +2 Con +3 Toad familiar)
AC: 17 (+2 Dex, +1 Dodge +4 Mage Armor), 15 while Raging, 17 Touch, 14 flat footed
Saving Throws: Will +2, Fort +3, Reflex +2
Attack: Melee +3 (+5 Raged), Ranged +3
CMB: +3, CMD: 15
Starting Feat: Dodge replaces Toughness
Class Features: Rage, Fast Movement
Skills: Knowledge Nature +8, Knowledge Arcana +8, Spellcraft +8, Intimidate +6, Perception +9, Acrobatics +6, Climb +6
OR
Fighter Class
HP 23 (+6+10 class, +2 Favored class pnts, +2 Con +3 Toad familiar)
AC: 17 (+2 Dex +1 Dodge +4 Mage Armor)
Saving Throws: Will +2, Fort +3, Reflex +2
Attack: Melee +3 (+4 arcane stk), Ranged +3 (+4 arcane stk)
CMB: +3, CMD: 15
Starting Feat: Dodge replaces Toughness
Class Bonus Feat: Arcane Strike
Skills: Knowledge Nature +8, Knowledge Arcana +7, Spellcraft +8, Intimidate +6, Perception +9, Climb +6
**Level 3**
Witch Class (2nd)
HP: 31 (Barbarian, 33 Raged) or 29 (Fighter)
AC: 17 (+2 Dex +1 Dodge +4 Mage Armor), 15 While Raging, Touch 17, Flat footed 14
Saving Throws: Will +3, Fort +3, Reflex +2
Attack(Barbarian): Melee +4 (+5 Arc Stk, +7 Raged), Ranged +4 (+5 Arc Stk)
Attack(Fighter): Melee +4 (+5 arc stk), Ranged +4 (+5 arc stk)
CMB: +4, CMD: 16
Feats(Barbarian): Dodge, Arcane Strike (3rd lvl)
Feats(Fighter): Dodge, Arcane Strike, Improved Initiative (3rd lvl)
Hexes: Slumber, Evil Eye OR Healing
Cantrips: Light, Detect Magic, Resistance, Stabilize, Bleed
Level 1 spells: Mage Armor (2 preparations), Shocking Grasp OR Burning Hands
Skills(w/Barbarian): Knowledge Nature +9, Knowledge Arcana +9, Spellcraft +8, Intimidate +7, Perception +10, Acrobatics +7, Climb +6
Skills(w/Fighter): Knowledge Nature +9, Knowledge Arcana +8, Spellcraft +9, Intimidate +7, Perception +10, Climb +6
**Level 4**
Barbarian Class (2nd)
Ability Increase: CON 14 (mostly to benefit Rage)
HP 44 (46 Raged)
AC: 17 (+2 Dex +1 Dodge +4 Mage Armor), 15 (Raged), Touch 17, Flat footed 14
Saving Throws: Will +3, Fort +5, Reflex +2
Attack: Melee +5 (+6, Arc Stk, +7 Raged), Ranged +5 (+6 Arc Stk,)
CMB: +5, CMD: 17
Feats: Dodge, Arcane Strike
Rage Power:
Skills: Knowledge Nature +10, Knowledge Arcana +10, Spellcraft +9, Intimidate +8, Perception +11, Acrobatics +8, Climb +7
OR
Fighter Class (2nd)
Ability Increase: INT 18 (to benefit Witches spell DC and # of hexes/day)
HP: 38
AC: 17 (+2 Dex +1 Dodge +4 Mage Armor), Touch 17, Flat footed 14
Saving Throws: Will +3, Fort +4, Reflex +2
Attack Melee: +5 (+6 Arc Stk), Ranged +5 (+6 Arc Stk)
CMB: +5, CMD: 17
Feats: Dodge, Arcane Strike, Improved Initiative
Bonus Combat Feat: Intimidating Prowess
Skills: Knowledge Nature +10, Knowledge Arcana +9, Spellcraft +10, Intimidate +10, Perception +11, Climb +7
Witches don't do well with multi-classing. They want their hex DCs to scale and a full caster rarely if ever wants to multiclass.
If you like the flavor have you considered just playing a fighter or barbarian and using the flavor? Or a hexcrafter magus?
Half Orc Barbarian 2/Scarred Witch Doctor could be an idea.
Or the Hexcrafter Magus if you want to stay half elf.
Half Orc Barbarian 2/Scarred Witch Doctor could be an idea.
Scarred witch doctor isn't PFS legal.
Missed that it was for PFS. Ooops.
A Ranger (Witchguard)is a martial character with some witch flair. Is that an option?
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Witches don't do well with multi-classing. They want their hex DCs to scale and a full caster rarely if ever wants to multiclass.
Yep, I had considered that and was concerned that the scaling could be exasperated due to only taking the PC to level 12.
If you like the flavor have you considered just playing a fighter or barbarian and using the flavor?
Huh, was that a tongue-in-cheek comment, or is there actually some other variation of those classes I'm not aware of?
Or a hexcrafter magus?
I had heard about the Magus and did realize that what I was attempting with my Raging/Battle Witch may be similar. I don't have Ultimate Magic though, and one of the PFS groups I occasionally join is sticky about the "having to own the book" rule. I do know where I can get it at a very good price though, so possibly.
Just out of curiosity, what variation of the Magus class makes a Hexcrafter?
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Just out of curiosity, what variation of the Magus class makes a Hexcrafter?
Nevermind about the above, I found the Hexcrafter archetype in the PDF. It does look like a very cool variation of the class. One of the problems I can see going with it though, is that the Hex Arcana only kicks in at level 12 which is really too late for a PFS PC. I'm also not clear if the Hex Magus supernatual ability lets them take more than 1 Witch hex?
Just out of curiosity, what variation of the Magus class makes a Hexcrafter?
Hexcrafter is an archetype from Ultimate Magic. It gets hexes and [curse] descriptor spells and loses spell recall. So you can have your hexes and do your swordplay and magic together without costing too much. Magus themselves mix swordplay better than most other gish options imo.
Another option is to go eldritch knight with a wizard. You don't get hexes, but you get a much bigger spell list and you still keep the prepared casting and familiar.
What exactly do you want out of being a witch and martial?
One of the problems I can see going with it though, is that the Hex Arcana only kicks in at level 12 which is really too late for a PFS PC. I'm also not clear if the Hex Magus supernatual ability lets them take more than 1 Witch hex?
Huh?
Hex Magus (4th level) gives you a Hex, replaces Spell Recall
Hex Arcana say you can replace ANY Magus Arcana with a Hex.
At 12th level you replace a Magus Arcana with a Hex or Greater Hex.
At 18th level you can now choose Grand Hexes too.
So thats 4 Hexes before 12th level, including possibly one Greater Hex. Arguably, it is 5 Hexes, if you could replace the 3rd level Arcana.
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Hex Magus (4th level) gives you a Hex, replaces Spell Recall
Hex Arcana say you can replace ANY Magus Arcana with a Hex.
At 12th level you replace a Magus Arcana with a Hex or Greater Hex.
At 18th level you can now choose Grand Hexes too.So thats 4 Hexes before 12th level, including possibly one Greater Hex. Arguably, it is 5 Hexes, if you could replace the 3rd level Arcana.
Yup, I read it incorrectly and can see now how it allows, starting at level 4, the Magus Arcana to be replaced with Hexes. The class really does seem to achieve what I want.
I did really like the Witches Familiar though, and the Magus' familiar really sounds more in line with the Wizards. I also liked Knowledge(nature) as a class skill, but can live without it.
[Edit] I've read some negative reviews from fans on Ultimate Magic, so other than the Magus class that seems awesome, how useful is the rest of the book for PFS play?
This is the Suggestions, Houserules and Homebrew subforum. This thread feels like it should be in PFS or Advice.
I did really like the Witches Familiar though, and the Magus' familiar really sounds more in line with the Wizards. I also liked Knowledge(nature) as a class skill, but can live without it.
You can get knowledge nature back as a class skill with a trait and there isn't much of a difference between the witch and wizard's familiar. They both scale and get the same class features. The big difference is that if a witches familiar dies your out a spell book too, and the selection for a witch is a little different, but for the most part the same.
[Edit] I've read some negative reviews from fans on Ultimate Magic, so other than the Magus class that seems awesome, how useful is the rest of the book for PFS play?
Its a big book, it varies. You do get a lot out of owning the core/APG/Ultimate series though I think. I got by borrowing friends books myself. If I remember right the big issue was with weird text that made some things awkward or hard to understand.
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I own the core and APG books, but none of the Ultimate series. The ARG was my next planned purchase, but this might just take it's place - especially since I have no plans to use the races from the ARG in PFS play. My son runs a PF campaign set in the Forgotten Realms, so I'm always up for buying books that could be useful for him too. From the reviews I've read of UM, the Words of Power section sounds very cool and probably something my son could include in his campaign.
I've read through all of the Magus build details on the PRD page and I'm 100% convinced it's what I want to roll with next, so thanks to you and Samasboy for recommending it.