Deadly Aim + Magic Missile


Rules Questions


Deadly Aim works on ranged damage rolls that are not touch attacks.

Would you say Magic Missile fulfills these criteria?

Why/Why not


Following up on that, can I weapon focus Missiles?


Ummm... No. The missiles strike unerringly, without an attack roll. So weapon focus wouldn't do anything, and you don't have the ability to target "weak spots" with deadly aim because there is no trade off for the extra damage.

Lantern Lodge

And deadly aim applies a penalty on a ranged attack roll to gain a bonus on ranged damage. Since magic missile does not make a ranged attack roll it doesn't work.

Shadow Lodge

You can select weapon focus (ray) and I believe even (ranged touch attack) if you are trying for feat prerequisites (because I assume you are making some form of an "Arcane Archer" minus the PrC levels). But I am pretty sure for an attack to be an attack, it must make an attack roll.


The caveat within Deadly Aim is made specifically to dis-include Ray spells... not to add ranged damage spells which do not require an attack roll.

There have also been quite a few discussions about what is or is not a weapon-like spell, and the answer is that anything that does require an attack roll is a weapon-like spell. With another caveat. Damage bonuses (like those from Good Hope or Inspire Courage) DO add damage to these spells (if they deal hitpoint damage, they dont add to spells like Ray of Enfeeblement) but they only add damage once for spells with multiple attacks (like scorching ray).

its a bit confusing but there it is


Funnily enough, it would work with Acid Arrow, which is not a ray spell... Hmm, I should go check. Possibly any touch spell with the Reach Spell Metamagic feat too.


Azten wrote:
Funnily enough, it would work with Acid Arrow, which is not a ray spell... Hmm, I should go check. Possibly any touch spell with the Reach Spell Metamagic feat too.

It should be noted that Rays act like weapons because the section of Rays specifically says so. To be considered a ray, the spell has to list Ray somewhere in its effect. (for feats like weapon focus Ray etc.)

Otherwise, any spell that has to hit touch AC, and deals hit point damage, can benefit from spells and feats and effects that modify attack rolls and damage for weapons. They can also all crit. However, it has been clarified that such effects only add damage once regardless of how many times a spell hits. So Inspire courage can add to an Acid Arrow's initial damage, but not to the damage dealt on subsequent rounds.

The reason that Ray spells are a bit better is because Feats like Imp Cirt or whatever, can be taken annd applied to ALL ray spells. And there is no such rule in place for, say, melee ranged touch spells. Although as a GM I would allow someone to take the feat Weapon Focus "Inflict" for all inflict spells... but that would be a houserule.


Quote:
The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

Or you could just read the feat.


ArmouredMonk13 wrote:
You can select weapon focus (ray) and I believe even (ranged touch attack) if you are trying for feat prerequisites (because I assume you are making some form of an "Arcane Archer" minus the PrC levels). But I am pretty sure for an attack to be an attack, it must make an attack roll.

Actually it is spelled out that any offensive harmful action is an attack. One of the examples in the Core Book is channeling energy to deal damage. This is considered to be an attack.

Interestingly, this suggests that an offensive caster could make very good use of a feat like Combat Expertise.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

There's a magic missile variant from Scarred Lands which is a touch attack. Adds an extra missile to the spell, and I believe does fire damage.

Still a touch attack, however.

==Aelryinth


Could you Deadly Aim a fireball? It hits unerringly, just like Magic Missile.

No; of course not. Don't let the name of the spells interfere with what they do.


As other said, Magic Missile has no attack roll at all so you could not use Deadly Aim with it.


Magic Missile isn't a ranged attack just as Fireball isn't a ranged attack; they're spells with a range, but mechanically not ranged attacks. Therefore, it isn't a "ranged damage roll" thus it doesn't benefit from Deadly Aim. Acid Arrow, likewise, is a no-go because it's still a ranged touch attack; all ranged touch attacks are prohibited by Deadly Aim, not just Rays; with the explicit exception of attacks with a firearm that target touch AC within the appropriate number of range increments.


Out of curiosity, what would be the consequences of allowing Deadly Aim with touch attacks? Would it eff everything up?


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Out of curiosity, what would be the consequences of allowing Deadly Aim with touch attacks? Would it eff everything up?

The issue with it is that since touch attacks are pretty much auto-hits against most opponents, the big downside of deadly aim (the penalty on attack rolls) becomes a non-issue. Going from +16 to hit to +13 doesn't really matter when most touch ACs are going to be 14 or lower.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Out of curiosity, what would be the consequences of allowing Deadly Aim with touch attacks? Would it eff everything up?

Honestly... I would allow it. Single target touch spells are fairly weak when it comes to the ones that specifically deal hit point damage (which I would maintain as the caveat for adding damage to spells... so no abil dmg etc. Would be affected)

If a caster really wants to take the penalties and the feat... go for it. It might give a little more mileage to certain low level spells and bloodline powers and wouldn't have any adverse effects that I could think of.

Not sure it would be worth it though... since even at lvl 20 with and 18 dex a sorc only gets a +14 to hit. And could take a -3 penalty for +6 damage. 6 damage is no big deal... and that -3 could very well still have an effect.


I might just end up allowing it. It's a bit imbalanced, but at least it gives something to the unhappy archer who finds himself stuck with just a couple flasks of acid.

Touch attacks are hardly auto-hits until higher levels, anyways. At first or second level, you're looking at around a +4--and that's assuming a good Dex! Touch ACs go down as you gain levels, so up against, say, a goblin? Your odds are only around 50/50. Really, about as good as the fighter with the greatsword, if not worse.

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