Combination Firearms

[redward]

The Dagger Pistol, Axe Musket and Warhammer Musket all contain something similar to the following language:
"It can be used as both a musket and a battleaxe." (/pistol/dagger/etc.)

Are these weapons treated as separate for the various weapon/group specific Feats and Special Abilities?

e.g., does a Fighter with Weapon Training in Firearms get a bonus to the ranged and melee attacks and damage, or only the ranged elements?

Or perhaps a shorter question, is there such a thing as Weapon Focus (Axe Musket)?

If so, one would reasonably assume it applies to both functions of the weapon. Otherwise, how would you know which function it does apply to?

If not, one would also reasonably assume that Rapid Reload (Muskets) applies to the Warhammer Musket and Axe Musket, since those weapons are "used as a musket."

[Kazaan]

Well, in Ultimate Equipment, they have a list of all the weapons and what weapon category they fit into. These hybrid melee/firearm weapons are conspicuously absent from that listing. I'd take from that that, while you very well could have Weapon Focus (Axe Musket) which covers both melee and ranged uses of the weapon, the bonuses it gains from Fighter Weapon Training would only apply to the distinct manners in which you use the weapon. To illustrate:

If you have Weapon Training (Firearms), it would boost your attack and damage when making ranged attacks, but not using the melee portion of the weapon, and vice versa if you have training in whatever weapon group the melee end of the weapon falls into.

If you have Weapon Focus (Axe Musket), you'd get +1 attack on both ranged and melee attacks.

Weapon Focus (Musket) would only give you +1 attack for ranged attacks with the Axe Musket. With Weapon Focus for whatever melee weapon the weapon has will only affect melee attacks and not ranged attacks.

[blackbloodtroll]

I wondered this very same thing.

[Samasboy1]

Would they not fit into the Double Weapon group?

This seems very much like other double weapons. Does WT (Axes) effect the pick-end of the Gnome Hook Hammer?

[redward]

Samasboy1 wrote:

Would they not fit into the Double Weapon group?

I don't think so, since they're only considered Double Weapons "for the purposes of creating masterwork or magical versions of this weapon."

Samasboy1 wrote:

This seems very much like other double weapons. Does WT (Axes) effect the pick-end of the Gnome Hook Hammer?

The difference is that the gnome hook hammer has a "hammer head" and a "curved pick", but neither are referred back to other specific weapons, while these firearms are.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

I wondered this very same thing.

Hmm, I found some of the other threads on the subject, but this one eluded me. In other threads about the Musket Master archetype, I've seen people say that the free Rapid Reload (Muskets) they get wouldn't apply to these weapons. It seems to me that it would.

Basically, you've got a Battleaxe grafted onto a Musket. So with a given attack, you can either use your
1d8/x3 Slashing Battleaxe (weapon group Axe, Weapon Focus (Battleaxe), etc.)
or your
1d8/x4 Bludgeoning/Piercing Musket (weapon group Firearms, Rapid Reload (Musket), etc.)

Is that right?