In a low-level game, my players recently came upon a trap (triggered by a pressure plate) that blocked a corridor which is the only way forward in a dungeon. The rogue in the party detected the trap and tried to disable it. He failed by 5 and the rules say that the trap is triggered and he cannot try to disable it again. I ruled that he had to make a reflex save to avoid being caught by the portcullises that came down from the ceiling as a result. He made the save and was still safely on one side of the corridor trap. The trap reset after a few minutes and he wanted to try disabling it again--now that he knew how it operated. According to RAW, it seems like this isn't possible because he cannot try again after failing by 5 or more. The players need to get by the trap to continue the adventure. I suppose they could find some creative ways to get across it (e.g. build a bridge that doesn't touch the pressure plate, block the portcullises somehow, etc.), but it does seem strange that disable device cannot be attempted again, especially after the rogue has seen the trap in action. Any thoughts on this? Am I applying RAW correctly by not letting the rogue make any further attempts?
I think the issue is that by failing by 5 or more, he wouldn't know how it operated. By failing that badly, he'd likely have an incorrect notion of how it worked, actually.
They wouldn't actually know there was a pressure plate at all.
What I'm not understanding, however, is why they need to bypass this trap to proceed. What does the trap do that prevents the PCs from progressing? If it's just a portcullis, they could just attack it or make a strength check to break it down, after all.
There is more to the trap. Two portcullises fall down, trapping a character and then spinning blades come out of the wall. Finally, a pit trap opens and disposes of the body. Then the trap immediately resets.
The DC depends on how tricky the device is. If the check succeeds, you disable the device. If it fails by 4 or less, you have failed but can try again. If you fail by 5 or more, something goes wrong. If the device is a trap, you trigger it. If you're attempting some sort of sabotage, you think the device is disabled, but it still works normally.
So, you can try again if you fail by 4 or less, but it doesn't say you can't try again if you fail by 5 or more.
Typically, though, there would be no need to try again if you accidentally spring the trap; the trap has gone off. In the case of a resetting trap, I would say you could, in fact, try again since that makes more sense, though you wouldn't get any bonuses or penalties for having set the trap off already.
Where does the pit go? How long a hallway is there between the portcullises? How many rounds does it take? There's a lot of questions here.
Any adventure with a trap that must be bypassed to progress is a poorly written adventure.
Where does the pit go? How long a hallway is there between the portcullises? How many rounds does it take? There's a lot of questions here.
Any adventure with a trap that must be bypassed to progress is a poorly written adventure.
Indiana Jones has a sad.
Indiana Jones has a sad.Where does the pit go? How long a hallway is there between the portcullises? How many rounds does it take? There's a lot of questions here.
Any adventure with a trap that must be bypassed to progress is a poorly written adventure.
Indiana Jones tripped every single trap presented before him in every single movie he was in, yet he clearly progressed.
That's mostly because the Indiana Jones trap system was interesting and fun, whereas Pathfinder traps are tedious and boring.
The DC depends on how tricky the device is. If the check succeeds, you disable the device. If it fails by 4 or less, you have failed but can try again. If you fail by 5 or more, something goes wrong. If the device is a trap, you trigger it. If you're attempting some sort of sabotage, you think the device is disabled, but it still works normally.So, you can try again if you fail by 4 or less, but it doesn't say you can't try again if you fail by 5 or more.
Typically, though, there would be no need to try again if you accidentally spring the trap; the trap has gone off. In the case of a resetting trap, I would say you could, in fact, try again since that makes more sense, though you wouldn't get any bonuses or penalties for having set the trap off already.
Under Try Again (Disable Device), it says "Varies. You can retry checks made to disable traps if you miss the check by 4 or less." Seems to imply you can't retry if you failed by 5 or more.
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RAW specifically states that you can't retry a failed by 5+ check. This makes perfect sense if it's one shot. The ceiling already collapsed, the arrows already shot at you, etc, the trap is done. You can't disable it now. On a resetting trap it makes no sense why you can't retry, but the rules are explicit on this.
The trap system on a whole is pretty lame: roll a die, if you fail you take damage. Disable device makes it worse by being trained only.
If a PC comes up with an eloquent speech when trying to persuade an npc, you give him a circumstance bonus on his diplomacy roll. If a PC comes up with a clever way of disabling a trap based on its description, but has no ranks in the skill, he can't do it. Even if the trap is just a tripwire, you can't take out your knife and cut the cord unless you put a rank in the skill. RAW, if you roll bad on the dice roll, you will somehow trip yourself on said cord and fall over. That's idiotic.
So, unless it's PFS and you're stuck with RAW, houserule traps into something that works for your group.
Here are the options:
Success by 10+: You do not trigger the and you can bypass the trap without disarming it.
Success: You do not trigger the trap and you have deactivated it.
Failure by <5: You do not trigger the trap and you can try again.
Failure by 5+: Something goes wrong (usually: you trigger the trap).
Nowhere does it state you cannot try again after triggering the trap.
Why? Because you have triggered it! It does not need to be said.
In the case of a trap that has reset you can try again because it does not state you cannot.
- Gauss