| Emitt Smalls |
Hi there, I am going to need a little help here and I’m talking straight rules not house rules.
I will be introducing a 9th level lawful evil Halfling cleric into a group, I was planning on playing a cleric who is a necromancer and specializes in raising the dead. Instant army. My GM’s head almost exploded. I do NOT want to overpower the game so I want to know what the limits are. The character was an escaped slave from Cheliax he wants to go back and free his people, even if he has to raise his own army to do it.
My questions will be:
1) The number of undead I can raise and control.
2) The HD is there a limit per created undead?
3) The Range or effect from Desecrate.
I’ll list the 5 feats I am taking in level order and the spells from the book so you can see my math.
1st: Spell Focus: Necromancy prereq for Undead Master
2nd: Command Undead (You can control any number of undead, so long
as their total Hit Dice do not exceed your cleric level.)
3rd: Undead Master (When you cast animate dead or use the
Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four
levels higher when determining the number of Hit
Dice you animate.)
4th: Create Magical Arms and Armor prereq for Reliquary Arms
5th: Create Reliquary Arms and Armor (When you craft a magic weapon, magic armor,or magic shield, you may add one casting of consecrate or
desecrate as part of the item crafting process. The item
becomes a reliquary and can be used as a holy (or unholy)
symbol divine focus of your deity. If you cast consecrate or
desecrate, your reliquary counts as a permanent fixture for
that spell while it remains in the spell’s area.)
Onto the Spells:
Animate Dead:
Targets one or more corpses touched
Duration instantaneous
Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you
can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a
single casting of animate dead. The desecrate spell doubles this limit.
The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely.
No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can
control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you
exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your
control, and any excess undead from previous castings become
uncontrolled. You choose which creatures are released. Undead you
control through the Command Undead feat do not count toward
this limit.
Desecrate:
Area 20-ft.-radius emanation
If the desecrated area contains an altar, shrine, or other
permanent fixture dedicated to your deity or aligned higher power,
the modifiers given above are doubled (+6 profane bonus to
negative channeled energy DCs, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points
per HD for undead created in the area).
Furthermore, anyone who casts animate dead within this area
may create as many as double the normal amount of undead (that is,
4 HD per caster level rather than 2 HD per caster level).
So number and control question:
Level 9 (Undead Master) now effectively level 13 raise double level HD = 26 HD. (desecrate) times 4 cleric level= 52 HD. I can raise up to 52 HD of undead…skeletons and/or zombies.
(Command Undead) plus (undead Master) 13 HD additional control and I can control up to 65 HD worth of undead.
Is this correct?
Raising undead question: 52 HD does this mean I can create ONE 52 HD skeleton/zombie? Is there an upper limit on how many HD one skeleton or zombie has? I think I know the answer and it is based off of the corpses racial HD. A human corpse has 1 HD. Right? Whereas a Shoggoth’s corpse would be 23 HD? A Bloody Burning Human Skeleton would be 4 HD?
Range or effect from Desecrate question: Desecrate has a range of 20 foot radius. It allows me to create double to amount of Undead (HD wise) because animate Dead allows me to only create one or two undead (Targets one or more corpses touched Duration instantaneous) Or does this mean I can create 1,2, 3 or 4 undead within the area?
The other question about Desecrate with Reliquary Arms…the bonuses from the created undead (+6 profane bonus to negative channeled energy DCs, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead created in the area) does that only apply as long as they stay within the 20 foot radius?
Does the 52 HD level I can control only apply to the undead within the 20 foot radius of the spell as well? If they level the 20 foot radius of the spell do I lose control of them? Cause on one hand it might seem over-powered, but on the other hand it would be next to useless if you wanted to create an army of 52 skeletons.
Thank any and all who take the time to help me figure this out.
From the bottom of a small heart filled with revenge.
| blahpers |
If you can find a 52 Hit Die corpse to animate, then I suppose you can have one big skeleton. Good luck.
Command Undead has a separate limit from animate dead, but remember that there must be undead to animate in the first place, and they get a new save every day to shrug off your control. Try not to be out of channels when that happens.
HD limit aside, animate dead allows you to make as many undead as you can touch in the same round, which according to the Magic section is six. You have to be able to touch them in the same round as the casting. I suggest piling the corpses on top of each other or laying them out in a packed row.
I don't know much about Reliquary Arms or desecrate and unfortunately don't have time to look into it right this moment. Hopefully someone else can fill you in.
| Dasrak |
Level 9 (Undead Master) now effectively level 13 raise double level HD = 26 HD. (desecrate) times 4 cleric level= 52 HD. I can raise up to 52 HD of undead…skeletons and/or zombies.
The "Undead Master" feat is poorly worded. By RAW, it does practically nothing since it only increases your caster level "when determining the number of hit dice you animate" and does not actually increase the number of undead you can control. Talk to your GM on this one.
Range or effect from Desecrate question: Desecrate has a range of 20 foot radius. It allows me to create double to amount of Undead (HD wise) because animate Dead allows me to only create one or two undead (Targets one or more corpses touched Duration instantaneous) Or does this mean I can create 1,2, 3 or 4 undead within the area?
If you are within the area of effect of the desecrate spell, then your animate dead spell is basically at double power and can create twice as many HD worth of undead. This has no effect on the maximum number you can control.
Technically speaking, the undead creature(s) you are animating doesn't even need to be inside the radius for you to gain this benefit, so long as you are (however, they will not gain the bonus hit points).
The other question about Desecrate with Reliquary Arms…the bonuses from the created undead (+6 profane bonus to negative channeled energy DCs, +2 profane bonus and +2 hit points per HD for undead created in the area) does that only apply as long as they stay within the 20 foot radius?
The profane bonuses are only within the desecrate effect, and any creature entering the area gains them. The hit points are permanent, and only affect creatures animated within the area.
Does the 52 HD level I can control only apply to the undead within the 20 foot radius of the spell as well?
Desecrate has no effect on the number of undead you control. It only affects the number of undead you can create with a single casting
of animate dead. If you can control 52 HD of undead, and you use desecrate to create a 52 HD monstrocity (good luck finding such a corpse...) then yes you can control it.It's worth noting that most of the time you'll want to create the variant "bloody skeleton", which halves the limit you can cast with a single use of "animate dead". However, that's still a maximum of 26 hit dice if you use the desecrate spell. The bloody skeleton is nice since if it is destroyed it just regenerates after an hour later. Big cost-saver. Also, always make sure you create "fast" zombies instead of the regular variety. Always nice when your minions can keep up with you.
Animate Dead is exceedingly powerful in some ways, and gives a disproportionate benefit. The problem is that all those undead that are following you around are going to cause problems for you. So it's very much a trade-off of a massive in-combat bonus for a massive headache out of combat.
| Skylancer4 |