Death From Above Feat

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Death from Above (Combat)
You allow gravity to add extra force to your charges.

Benefit: Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the bonuses from charging and being on higher ground.

I understand that while standing on higher ground, be it a hill or table, and while flying, this feat would apply.

Does Jumping before or during a charge(at least 5 ft higher) allow the application of this feat as well?

[Majuba]

No, I don't see that it would, unless you could jump to higher ground during your charge (with the Duelist charge ability, or something similar).

[Nefreet]

I don't believe jumping qualifies as flying, and you're not standing on higher ground, either, so I'd say "no".

In a home game, if you had a monk built around charging and jumping and such, I'd probably allow it.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Understood. Thanks fellas!

[Nefreet]

Hmm, although, isn't attacking a medium-sized or smaller creature from atop a mount considered "higher ground"? This feat sounds awesome for a cavalier.

[Xenrac]

Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:

Death from Above (Combat)

You allow gravity to add extra force to your charges.

Benefit: Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the bonuses from charging and being on higher ground.

I understand that while standing on higher ground, be it a hill or table, and while flying, this feat would apply.

Does Jumping before or during a charge(at least 5 ft higher) allow the application of this feat as well?

As far as I've found, there is no explicit definition of what constitutes Higher ground, beyond mention of a +1 attack bonus for people uphill in the Hills Terrain for "Gentle Slopes", with, once again, no explicit definition. My own GM went back to 3.5 and found their definition, which was something along the lines of "having your feet above your opponent's waist". Which can be achieved with a DC12 acrobatics check on a high jump. Though, since you have a running start, and would travel 12 feet on that jump, would roughly work, like this: Start your charge, jump the last 10 feet of it, half way through the jump, you achieve high ground, and you are now charging down at them from your high ground.

More strictly, the charge has to Start from high ground, and since you need at least 10 feet to charge, you'd have to jump 20 feet for a DC20 acrobatics check (that would guarantee success on reaching 5 feet in the air, so you could even achieve high ground against larger creatures), "starting" your charge at the peak of your jump.

However, the most strict definition says you have to start your charge from high ground, and you can't start your action in midair from your jump last turn (unless you're falling or something), so you could not possibly achieve this feat.

However, there is a pretty solid logical argument that works in your favor: Put a ten foot tall, thirty foot wide hill between you and your opponent, seems like a legitimate "Gentle Slope", so it would not hinder your movement, you charge up the hill, then down the other side of the hill, half way through, you've achieved high ground and normally get a +1, this feat takes that +1 and turns it into a +5. Take the hill away, and give the fact that a running jump does not impair your movement, and you can suddenly achieve high ground with a jump.

The wrinkle to that, is that you could apply the same logic to jump over difficult obstacles and achieve a charge where others could not. Which is a Duelist class Feature: Acrobatic Charge

Given the very rare occasion this feat traditionally comes into play (other than flying), and that any good GM could say Yes to jumping over clear ground and No to jumping over difficult terrain without breaking their own brain or causing too much fuss (unless someone is really really persistent, but isn't that why this forum exists in the first place?), I would personally allow it. But, if you're really determined to get it, and your DM is really strict about it and says no: become a Duelist, Get acrobatic charge, and win forever.

[Ferious Thune]

I would think that jumping in the middle of a charge would not be taking the most direct path to the target of the charge, and therefore would not be allowed RAW. You would be traveling extra distance (up) in order to get to the target. Of course in a home game the GM could rule to allow it.

[Komoda]

I think it was a 3.5 Rules of the Game article but somewhere I read that when your feet are above the waist of the opponent, you are on higher ground.

[Bizbag]

Do keep in mind that this feat is a +2 net increase to your attack on the charge; that might play into whether you feel it is worth your investment.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Xenrac wrote:

Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:

Death from Above (Combat)

You allow gravity to add extra force to your charges.

Benefit: Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the bonuses from charging and being on higher ground.

I understand that while standing on higher ground, be it a hill or table, and while flying, this feat would apply.

Does Jumping before or during a charge(at least 5 ft higher) allow the application of this feat as well?

As far as I've found, there is no explicit definition of what constitutes Higher ground, beyond mention of a +1 attack bonus for people uphill in the Hills Terrain for "Gentle Slopes", with, once again, no explicit definition. My own GM went back to 3.5 and found their definition, which was something along the lines of "having your feet above your opponent's waist". Which can be achieved with a DC12 acrobatics check on a high jump. Though, since you have a running start, and would travel 12 feet on that jump, would roughly work, like this: Start your charge, jump the last 10 feet of it, half way through the jump, you achieve high ground, and you are now charging down at them from your high ground.

More strictly, the charge has to Start from high ground, and since you need at least 10 feet to charge, you'd have to jump 20 feet for a DC20 acrobatics check (that would guarantee success on reaching 5 feet in the air, so you could even achieve high ground against larger creatures), "starting" your charge at the peak of your jump.

However, the most strict definition says you have to start your charge from high ground, and you can't start your action in midair from your jump last turn (unless you're falling or something), so you could not possibly achieve this feat.

However, there is a pretty solid logical argument that works in your favor: Put a ten foot tall, thirty...

Absolutely outstanding information and advice. Thank you Xenrac.

As a Monk/Druid mostly being in Lion shape, I'll be Pouncing a lot. Death From Above would come in handy, as long as I could put it to good use. I'm not sure if I'll press him for this but this is great to think about.

[Xenrac]

Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:

Absolutely outstanding information and advice. Thank you Xenrac.

As a Monk/Druid mostly being in Lion shape, I'll be Pouncing a lot. Death From Above would come in handy, as long as I could put it to good use. I'm not sure if I'll press him for this but this is great to think about.

You are most certainly welcome. (And thanks for overlooking my occasionally horrid grammar.)

Yeah. This feat is one of the things that saves me from my own decision to play a Dex focused Kensai that doesn't have a scimitar. (Didn't know about Dervish Dance then, and don't care for it now) Even though the -2 to my AC on a charge also regularly comes back to haunt me...

But one last note: Remember that you can't Flurry with your Natural attacks. I'm unsure whether or not Lions can use unarmed strikes either. I'm sure you've already taken that into account, but flurrying with natural attacks is a way bigger faux-pas than jumping on a charge.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

I appreciate the side note as well; you best believe I've been going all over the forums making sure things line up right! haha

Feral Combat I believe let's me flurry with natural attacks. I think there are still complications to it. I really don't intend on using natural attacks though. As for the IUS... Headbutts are always available, kicks, knees, etc. I think as long as I flavor it fairly legit, the DM will be okay with it. He's already okay with my monk doing IUS via Pelvic Thrusts rusl XD.