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In 3.5., supernatural abilities were purely mental - no verbal, no somatic, and no material components.
Can someone point me to where this is stated in PF? The closest I've come is this line:
natural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.
Which indicates it should be decided on a case by case basis.
More in spoiler:
What makes this a difficult question for me is that there are quite a few supernatural abilities with components in PF. A Witch's Cackle makes noise (verbal), and an Alchemist's bomb requires both a catalyst vial (material) and a throwing motion (somatic.) So they wouldn't be purely mental actions.
So if a supernatural ability mimics a spell, does it have the components of that spell? Like a Witch's Flight Hex - can she use it while paralyzed?
Well, let me flip your question on its head. Why would supernatural abilities have components?
Spells have components, and the description of casting spells tell you how they work.
Spell-like abilities work just like spells, so there is a reason to have it explicitly stated that they don't have any components.
But most supernatural abilities do not work like spells. They are constant auras of protection, or the ability to breath a cloud of poison gas, ect.
Since most supernatural abilities do not function like spells, why would they have the components spells do?
As you say, some do require something, like Cackle requiring you to verbalize a sound. But that will be in the description of the specific supernatural ability.
Well, I know that I can find the exact description of what SLAs and SUs are in the magic section on d20pfsrd.com, but it doesn't specifically state where it got that from. But since this is the basics of the system, I would assume it is stated in the core rule book. So here are the relevant sections:
SLA's
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
This shows that there are no specific components to the spell, although there would often be general tells depending on the spell (darkness, which the base tiefling gets, is cast onto an object, and people can obviously see the darkness starts from there I would think)
Here is the description for SUs:
These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.
No mention of components, but the fact that they do not draw AoO might be an indication that they do not need an obvious action that would allow someone to counter it. The fact that this section leads off with SLA's carries the general implciation that supernatural, extraordinary, and natural abilities work in a similar way.
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Well, let me flip your question on its head. Why would supernatural abilities have components?
Because some do - I gave examples in the spoiler. Witch's Cackle makes noise and won't work in Silence per the FAQ, so it definitely has a verbal component. Alchemist's bomb requires materials and movement, so it can't be used while paralyzed, whereas other supernatural abilities can. However, I would say that some like Evil Eye do have no components at all and so can be used while paralyzed.
No mention of components, but the fact that they do not draw AoO might be an indication that they do not need an obvious action that would allow someone to counter it. The fact that this section leads off with SLA's carries the general implciation that supernatural, extraordinary, and natural abilities work in a similar way.
Yeah, I would find it odd that mixing a bomb is so simple an action that it doesn't provoke (though of course, throwing the bomb does) but I'm fine with that being the RAW. But Bomb still does have components and still can't be used while paralyzed.
Anyway, for most Su abilities it requires common sense and I'm okay with that - but it's the ones that mimic spells that concern me. I would want there to be language that a Supernatural ability that duplicates a spell functions like an SLA of that spell, and has no components required.
Mixing a bomb is as simple as you can imagine it. For example, bombs could be prepared in advance as small two-chambered containers with reactive components, and "mixing" them is simply pulling out the partition between the two chambers, letting the reactants mix.
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Mixing a bomb is as simple as you can imagine it. For example, bombs could be prepared in advance as small two-chambered containers with reactive components, and "mixing" them is simply pulling out the partition between the two chambers, letting the reactants mix.
That works - and for the record, I'm fine with it not provoking AoO.
But I guess what I'm getting at is - in 3.5, all supernatural abilities could be used while paralyzed or tied up. That doesn't appear to be the case in PF. You should be able to tell by reading the ability whether it requires movement or not - but some Su abilities replicate spells that have somatic components. So does the Su ability of a spell require movement or not?
For example - can a Witch use her Flight Hex while paralyzed?
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Mixing a bomb is as simple as you can imagine it. For example, bombs could be prepared in advance as small two-chambered containers with reactive components, and "mixing" them is simply pulling out the partition between the two chambers, letting the reactants mix.But I guess what I'm getting at is - in 3.5, all supernatural abilities could be used while paralyzed or tied up.
For what it's worth, this isn't actually mentioned in the Core rules for 3.5E D&D. The wording is essentially identical to the Pathfinder wording. If it was FAQed later to work the way you describe, then that's a different matter.
As an example, Abundant Step is a Monk Supernatural ability at 12th level. It says nothing about components, with the exception of "as if using the spell dimension door." That would indicate that it uses the components of the spell. That's the 3.5E wording, as a note. The Pathfinder version adds that it draws from the monk's ki pool, is a move action, and they can't take other creatures.
Part of the confusion may be the use of "components". This word doesn't really have any meaning outside of the context of spells. A witch's Cackle hex doesn't have a verbal component, it simply requires the ability to vocalize. This sounds like a contradiction, but verbal component has a specific mechanical meaning in Pathfinder, which is, to paraphrase, "a spoken incantation required to cast a spell". In casual terms, Cackle could be said to have a verbal component, but in rules situations, such a sentence would be meaningless, as Cackle is not a spell.
As an example, Abundant Step is a Monk Supernatural ability at 12th level. It says nothing about components, with the exception of "as if using the spell dimension door." That would indicate that it uses the components of the spell.
Abundant Step does not have components.
Part of the confusion may be the use of "components". This word doesn't really have any meaning outside of the context of spells. A witch's Cackle hex doesn't have a verbal component, it simply requires the ability to vocalize. This sounds like a contradiction, but verbal component has a specific mechanical meaning in Pathfinder, which is, to paraphrase, "a spoken incantation required to cast a spell". In casual terms, Cackle could be said to have a verbal component, but in rules situations, such a sentence would be meaningless, as Cackle is not a spell.
This is what I was trying to say with my question "Why would they have components", but put much better.
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As for other hexes like Flight, we really only have the text in the description to go on. Flight seems to just happen--the witch's weight just lessens. So it's probably usable while paralyzed. Evil Eye would require nothing akin to components, but probably wouldn't work while blindfolded. Slumber? No idea. Ask your GM about any of these before depending on them.
Part of the confusion may be the use of "components". This word doesn't really have any meaning outside of the context of spells. A witch's Cackle hex doesn't have a verbal component, it simply requires the ability to vocalize. This sounds like a contradiction, but verbal component has a specific mechanical meaning in Pathfinder, which is, to paraphrase, "a spoken incantation required to cast a spell". In casual terms, Cackle could be said to have a verbal component, but in rules situations, such a sentence would be meaningless, as Cackle is not a spell.
Ah, like how being deaf causes a failure chance with spells because you might flub your lines and not even realize it, but cackling does not have any real specific sound you need to make other than a general cackling
I might rule that you can do a muffled cackle with your mouth gagged at a reduced range. It might work while paralyzed, since the respiratory system still seems to work since you are not suffocating, so you could do some kind of rhythmic gargling that is basically a twisted laugh.
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As an example, Abundant Step is a Monk Supernatural ability at 12th level. It says nothing about components, with the exception of "as if using the spell dimension door." That would indicate that it uses the components of the spell.Abundant Step does not have components.
The problem from my point of view is that there's nothing to back up your claim. The ability does specifically state that it functions as the spell, which has a Verbal Component. There isn't any text that I have seen that indicates that Supernatural abilities that mimic spells do not have Components. Supernatural abilities, on the other hand, do have that specific text. If you could cite a source, it would be greatly appreciated. As I was pointing out to Psyren, there's no text in 3.5 or PF Core to indicate that reading is true. To my knowledge, at least.
Edit: And for what it's worth, I actually do want to agree with you. I am, unfortunately, closer to being one of those Inevitable GMs than not (except where the rules are utterly foolish or I believe a Dev ruling is explicitly incorrect by RAW), and thus want to see where it says you're right as opposed to taking you at your word.
Just as an example of how to make these judgment calls, let's look at blahpers's last two examples:
Evil Eye would require nothing akin to components, but probably wouldn't work while blindfolded.Slumber requires you to be able to see the target, per its description, so you could not use it blindfolded. You could be tied up and gagged, but if not blindfolded you can use it.
Slumber? No idea. Ask your GM about any of these before depending on them.It doesn't describe how she causes them to fall asleep, so you assume it is simply magic, so you do not need to move.
No arguments on either point.
As an example, Abundant Step is a Monk Supernatural ability at 12th level. It says nothing about components, with the exception of "as if using the spell dimension door." That would indicate that it uses the components of the spell.Abundant Step does not have components.The problem from my point of view is that there's nothing to back up your claim. The ability does specifically state that it functions as the spell, which has a Verbal Component. There isn't any text that I have seen that indicates that Supernatural abilities that mimic spells do not have Components. Supernatural abilities, on the other hand, do have that specific text. If you could cite a source, it would be greatly appreciated. As I was pointing out to Psyren, there's no text in 3.5 or PF Core to indicate that reading is true. To my knowledge, at least.
Edit: And for what it's worth, I actually do want to agree with you. I am, unfortunately, closer to being one of those Inevitable GMs than not (except where the rules are utterly foolish or I believe a Dev ruling is explicitly incorrect by RAW), and thus want to see where it says you're right as opposed to taking you at your word.
Considering that spell-like abilities are specifically called out in the rules as not having components despite being much closer approximations of spells, I'd find it hard to believe that supernatural abilities such as Abundant Step would have components. When a supernatural or extraordinary ability describes an effect in terms of "as if using the spell X", it usually means that the result of using the ability is the same as if one had cast the spell. Feel free to look for other rulings on the subject.
If you aren't convinced by the fact that components are defined under Spell Descriptions as "what you must do or possess to cast the spell", the fact that a supernatural ability is not a spell nor even a spell-like ability, and that even spell-like abilities (which are also not spells, though very nearly spells most purposes) do not have components, then you'll have to ask a developer, as the rules typically don't go into every detail when reasonable inference would suffice. If they did, the book would be so heavy and expensive that nobody would buy it. SKR has already posted multiple times that at some point you just have to use your head.
Okay, just wanted to clarify. As previously stated, I do personally want to agree with your position. I just wanted to clarify for myself that it whether it was a RAI or RAW position. It does actually make a difference in certain games, and this one appears to be RAI. Cheers.
No worries! : D