Dwarven Urgrosh Fighter Build


Advice

Sczarni

I'm trying to build a Dwarf Fighter for PFS, centered around using the Dwarven Urgrosh. I'm having trouble with what stats to buy, or whether or not I should use the Two-Weapon Warrior Archetype.

I understand that the Ranger is better suited for TWF, but due to the back story I want to use I'm leaning toward using the fighter. Has anyone here successfully built a double-weapon focused Dwarf Fighter?

I'm not opposed to going with a ranger, I'm just trying to find the best build to match what I want to do, and I think Fighter fits the my character's back story better.


Do not let the fluff of the classes put you off from them.

If you wanna be a ranger but do not like the idea of spell casting get a trap making druid. The archetypes allow you to dump any ability for another you find out of place.


Actually with 20pb (this is legal for PFS right?) the Two-Weapon Warrior has the potential for a stronger character than a TWF Ranger. Check this guide.

You can follow the Two-Weapon Warrior suggestion build as-is by changing only the weapon focuses and the like for you Urgosh. Make sure that you read the tactics that are discussed.

EDIT: My stats for a Dwarf TWW would be (20pb):
Str 17 (+1 at 8 lvl), Dex 16 (+1 at 4, 12, 16 lvls), Con 12, Int 13 (for combat experise and trip feat chain), Wis 7 (+1 at 20 lvl), Cha 7
After racial you have 14 con, 9 wis and 5 cha.

Enjoy your quasimodo ;) (aside the joke it is a good build)


Actually, I think that because we are talking about a double weapon, it might be far better to use ranger since they can more easily make a strength build without opening such large dump stats (I never feel comfortable dumping wisdom myself, especially with a class with poor will saves; also, is there anything that does CHA damage might oneshot you if it uses a 1d6)

I love double weapons since they can get past one of the key problems of a TWF build-what if you can't get a full attack? Since double weapons can be wielded as a twohanded weapon, however, they can easily get 1.5 x STR and power attack damage. Once you have the target entrenched, you can then switch back to treating it as a set of onehanded and light weapons.

Anyway, 6 levels of ranger would be all you would need in order to get through the 12 levels PFS takes place in. Take TWF and improved TWF as your style feats. After that, finish out as a fighter to take advantage of both the feats, weapon specialization, and even a bit of weapon focus at the very end.

Sczarni

XMorsX wrote:

Actually with 20pb (this is legal for PFS right?) the Two-Weapon Warrior has the potential for a stronger character than a TWF Ranger. Check this guide.

You can follow the Two-Weapon Warrior suggestion build as-is by changing only the weapon focuses and the like for you Urgosh. Make sure that you read the tactics that are discussed.

EDIT: My stats for a Dwarf TWW would be (20pb):
Str 17 (+1 at 8 lvl), Dex 16 (+1 at 4, 12, 16 lvls), Con 12, Int 13 (for combat experise and trip feat chain), Wis 7 (+1 at 20 lvl), Cha 7
After racial you have 14 con, 9 wis and 5 cha.

Enjoy your quasimodo ;) (aside the joke it is a good build)

Thanks! These stats are similar to what I was considering, and that guide is great. I'll keep your advice in mind.


Lemeres is offering good advise too, in case you are not comftable with the dump stats (mostly Wisdom). IMO it is worth it for the increased damage fighter offers, especially if an allied caster buffs you with a protection from evil. Will saves will be better than they look because of your +2 racial saving throw bonus against spells and spell-like abilities. Couple it with a trait like Carefully Hidden for +1 Willsave bonus and your will be more resistant than the average fighter (the other trait will probabaly be defender of the society for a +1 AC bonus).

Sczarni

XMorsX wrote:
Lemeres is offering good advise too, in case you are not comftable with the dump stats (mostly Wisdom). IMO it is worth it for the increased damage fighter offers, especially if an allied caster buffs you with a protection from evil. Will saves will be better than they look because of your +2 racial saving throw bonus against spells and spell-like abilities. Couple it with a trait like Carefully Hidden for +1 Willsave bonus and your will be more resistant than the average fighter (the other trait will probabaly be defender of the society for a +1 AC bonus).

Of course, you both have great advice here, and I really appreciate it. These builds just aren't seeming to fit with the backstory I'm wanting to base this character on. I decided to do something a little different, I went two-handed fighting with the dwarven longhammer. I'll save the double weapon for another character where my backstory isn't inhibiting me as much.

Both of the traits you mentioned are amazing; sadly however, I cannot use them because I do not own the books that they come from.

Thanks again to both you and Lemeres for all your help.


In this case you may be interested to check the dwarven fighter archetype Foehammer. Here is a thread with useful advise for such a build too. The traits I mentioned can also be found in this open database.

Sczarni

Thanks for the link, I really appreciate it. There were several things on that thread that answered questions I had.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

For some thing a bit off, try the base fighter. It really is top notch, you lose nothing.
As for stats, you should look at this build as either
1. A two handed fighter that uses Two weapon fighting or
2. A two weapon fighter that can two hand

As a possible build for a two handed fighter it would look like this

:

St 17 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 8, 4th level stat boost strength, the rest dex.

Feats:

1st Power Attack, to make it hurt

Fighter 1st Weapon focus, to make it hit

Fighter 2nd Cleave, to hurt their friends as well

3rd Dodge (avoid the pain), Combat Reflex (punish the stupid), Furious focus (make sure the pain hits when it needs to), Shield of Swings (avoid the pain) or toughness (live longer than they do)

Fighter 4th Weapon Specialization more hurt

5th Two Weapon Fighting, more hits more pain!

6th Fighter Vital Strike, if you only get one hit make it really hurt

Fighter 12th Improved Two weapon fighting, even more hits!

Tactics, when allowed only one attack power attack and two hand for nasty damage, also same if you have cleave, great cleave or cleaving finish.
Two weapon it if you are able to make a full attack.

Focus on the power attack/Two handed part at lower levels when one major strike can kill foes more quickly than two little whacks. When you start using Two Weapon fighting at 5th level keep using power attack, your high BAB means you will still hit often and power attack means it will hurt, a lot!!!


I did not list every feat for every level; you have to have room for your own creativity.

A two weapon build might look like this:

:

St 14 Dex 17 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 8, All stat bumps to dex

Feats:

1st Two weapon fighting, more hits

Fighter 1st weapon focus, to make your more hits, well hit

Fighter 2nd Dodge, Defense, do not make hitting you easy

3rd Two Weapon Defense not going to have something else in hand and can’t use a shield

Fighter 4th Weapon Speciation, more pain!

Fighter 6th Improved Two Weapon fighting, even more Hits!

7th Power Attack, more pain! And at this level, you can make your extra pain from power attack actually hit!

Fighter 8th Greater Weapon Focus, See a them about making your attacks hit?

11th Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Fighter 12th Greater Weapon Specialization, and making them hurt?

This kind of build excels when it full attacks, but less so when not; plus your defense must be higher than a two hander. You are relying on several smaller hits to kill your foe and remain in harms way much longer, ignore your ac and you will die quickly.

How and in what order you do this is your choice, I recommend your non-fighter feats be put to this task.

Tactics, move to position full attack. Let the fools come to you, full attack.
Your whole thing is to full attack, move only when needed or your targets aren’t stupid enough to come to you. Then go teach them some manners.


Hope my thoughts might help some!

Shadow Lodge

The main problem with the urgosh is that it forfeits shield use; and front-line tanks in PFS will be subjected to a LOT of abuse Tier 5 & up. (If using a two-hander teases you into the barbarian rage path, then those multi-attack monsters will really lay into your hide.)

Q. to the OP: what books do you own? (This is a big limitation on which cheese is available to you in PFS.)

Some basic observations about mid/high level PFS combat:

* You will make more saving-throws than you bargained for.
* You'll be sadly disappointed by how seldom smart opponents let you full-attack.
* You'll be sadly disappointed at how often you can set up a cleave without granting one of the targets an AoO.
* If your AC isn't top-notch as a front-liner, you might as well be naked.
* Big monsters love grappling PCs who are overly invested in two-handed weapons.

-- The class I have seen die the most frequently in PFS is the barbarian (the players read the guides and assume they'll always win the DPR-attrition battle; they're right until they're wrong, and then they're dead).

Quote:
Has anyone here successfully built a double-weapon focused Dwarf Fighter?

It was a lot easier in 3rd-edition before Cleave and Great Cleave were nerfed; now TWF is myeh unless you're either a rogue or a class employing extended-threat weaponry with lots of numeric bonuses (e.g., a samurai with a pair of wakizashis). Fighters generate very nice numeric bonuses, but the urgosh has a lousy threat range. In Pathfinder, the urgosh is either a bardiche without reach, or a waraxe that takes two hands. You're better off carrying both of those weapons (also in the axe group) than an urgosh. Its lingering bright spot, aside from the rare set-to-receive-charge, is piercing damage with axe group Weapon Training bonus.

It wouldn't be so bad if enchanting applied to both ends of the weapon.

==//==

The All-Purpose Dwarf Fighter

Stat array: 15,14,14,14,12,07 (preferred)

STR:15
DEX:14
CON+16
INT:14
WIS+14
CHA-05

==or==

Stat array: 17,14,12,12,12,07 (melee/ranged +1/-1; ref -1; AC -1 in four mirror; -1 skills & cannot take Combat Expertise without gear)

STR:17
DEX:12
CON+16
INT:12
WIS+14
CHA-05

Traits: Defender of the Society, Accelerated Drinker

01 fight1 Quick Draw, Dodge

...equipment: four-mirror armor, heavy shield, club, javelins
...AC = 22 at 1st.

02 fight2 Weapon Focus: Waraxe

...equipment: MW light quickdraw shield, MW waraxe
...tactics: retract the shield to two-hand the waraxe for +1 damage

03 fight3 Steel Soul

...equipment: cloak of resistance +1
...your base saves are +10/+8/+8 vs. magic.

04 fight4 Weapon Specialization:Waraxe, STR>16

...equipment: MW STR+3 composite longbow, MW bardiche

05 fight5 [WT:axe group], Power Attack

...why wait until 5th for Power Attack? Because it's the feat that makes you miss, that's why. Missing sucks hard. So pair it up with Weapon Training. But the real reason for it is....

06 fight6 Pushing Assault

Tactics: Pushing Assault to smack melee opponents out of their 5' & full-attack range. Repeat. When your foe is a big monster with multiattack, turning the fight into you-hit-twice-he-hits-once is big win. (You knock him back 5' with your main attack, step back, quickdraw bow or other ranged weapon for -5 iterative, then re-equip quickdraw shield if it isn't.)

07 Combat Expertise

...CE taken for the AC bonus as boss fights getting fierce.
...at about this point you should have the prestige and the money for Gloves of Dueling, resulting in a big boost to waraxes, bardiche, throwing axes, etc.

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