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Hi, I am interested in playing a Rogue having never played one before. I settled on Tengu because I found a really cool mini for one honestly and after looking at the advanced race guide the swordmaster archtype that they are allowed seemed pretty cool.
Since this is pathfinder society I can only use books that I own so I am limited to CRB,APG,UM,UC, and ARG. I don't have the other various books.
So how would I go about building a 20 point tengu rogue? I am not interested in a level dip into fighter or anything like that just a straight rogue.
I have some basic questions about rogues in general. It seems like TWF is the optimal way to go, but can you swing a big two hander and do decently or are two weapons clearly the best way to rogue it up.
If two weapons are the best way can I dump strength to like 10 or 12?
weapon choices? I was thinking dual wakazashis since tengus get access to them as a racial think without having to spend any feats and they have that nice crit range. Also by using two of the same type weapons I can weapon focus easier.
Anyways looking for a decent build. I will be trying my best to be a flanker as often as possible.
suggestions?
Can you even make a tengu? I'm always unsure with non-core races and PFS.
If you want to really dump some stats, I'd say go for int or cha. The rogue gets plenty of skill points, and unless you want to be a face, the cha will be unnecesary.
I'd say go for weapon finesse. Yes, you'll do less damage, but with the wakizashi and TWF, it might be slightly better. With improved crit, you'd be a critical BOMB. But it risks being pretty expensive. You could dump strength (to maybe 12) but keep a little just in case.
For anything else, check the rogue eidolon guide, it's pretty comprehensive.
However, you are playing tengu right? Culturally, a ninja would fit quite nicely, and I LOVE pathfinder ninjas. They get virtually all the rogues abilities (except traps) and have a lot of cool powers.
And dont forget the racial tengu feats. You can pretty quickly gain the ability to fly a bit each day.
Ebit: If you want, you can also take the natural weapons alternate racial trait. It can also be used with weapon finesse, and there's a feat that boosts the damage of its beak to 1d6 with 1 point of bleed. Pretty sweet.
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I'd suggest ninja. Fits flavor-wise and they are mechanically better than rogues.
TWF is not the way to go. When you figure the math, you are actually doing less DPR than a simple two-handed weapon. Especially in PFS when money is so scarce and the only way a DEX build is even viable (yet still underpowered) is once you put the enchantment on your weapon that adds DEX instead of STR to damage. Having to do that twice is terrible. If you go ninja you can 2-hand a katana but since you are going a DEX build I suggest using the tengu class feature for proficiency with an elven curved blade.
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If you just want cheese:
Tengu Ninja/Rogue
Maximize Dexterity
Natural Weapons racial trait
Weapon Finesse
Full Attack with sneak = a potential 3d3 + 3d6 at level one.
Spend 4000GP on an Agile +0 Amulet of Mighty Fists, but level 5, starting with a Dex of 19 and putting your Level 4 +1 into Dex,you're doing 1d3+5+3d6 on each hit, so a potential with a full attack of 3d3+15+9d6 with a full attack assuming they all hit.
But, cheese can be pretty boring.
Actually, you could probably TWF with both the elven curved blade AND your beak. Flavor-wise, I find TWF (with wakizashi) fits better, but the limits of PFS are such that flavor can be unwise without the right DM.
@Torka: what are the 3 non-core races allowed in PFS?
Since most of your damage comes from sneak attack, which isn't multiplied on a crit, I wouldn't put too much stock into the threat range of a wakizashi. And I agree that keeping enchantments up on two weapons (and your bite attack) is going to be prohibitively expensive; I think your best bet would be either:
-14 Str, 18 Dex, Weapon Finesse and Power Attack with an Elven Curved Blade
-OR 18-19 Dex, Claw Attack alternate racial trait, Weapon Finesse, and an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists ASAP
Do you have any more specific goals with what this character should be able to do? Do you want to focus on damage?
Heck, the whole claw attack thing would be awesome. With a single amulet of mighty fists, you could enchant 3 weapons (IE your 2 claws+beak). I dont know if it would be allowed in PFS, but you could certainly try to take multiattack or improved natural attack (not sure if it would count on both claws though)(or if it would be allowed in PFS).
In any case, this thread has given me some great ideas for a multiattack based Tengu!
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Since most of your damage comes from sneak attack, which isn't multiplied on a crit, I wouldn't put too much stock into the threat range of a wakizashi. And I agree that keeping enchantments up on two weapons (and your bite attack) is going to be prohibitively expensive; I think your best bet would be either:
-14 Str, 18 Dex, Weapon Finesse and Power Attack with an Elven Curved Blade
That one is the winner -- being able to still dish it out in non-ideal circumstances (no full-attack, no sneak) is what keeps you alive. Works well with Spring Attack and Ki speed-bursts keeping you out of the enemy's 5'.
Stats: (15,14,14,14,12,07 pre-racial 20pt array)
STR:14
DEX+17
CON-12
INT:07 (6 skills/level is enough in PFS)
WIS+14
CHA:14 (ninja ki pool is CHA-based)
Racial archetype: none (claws forfeits sword-trained, so no free elf sword prof)
00 01/03/02 base save bonuses F/R/W
01 03/05/02 ranger1* [archetype:guide], Quick Draw
02 03/07/02 ninja1 SA+1d6
03 03/08/02 ninja2 [Ki pool][trick:Rogue Talent:finesse rogue], Power Attack
04 04/09/02 ranger2* [Archery style:Precise Shot], DEX>18
05 05/09/03 ninja3 SA+2d6, FEAT (Dodge yields Spring Attack by 7th)
06 ...ninja4 TRICK
07 ...etc.
*This R2 dip provides ninja-lacking shield and longbow proficiencies, shores up horrid Fort save, accesses Precise Shot without PBS, classes climb/swim/survival [have a rank each by 3rd], and Guide grants a very nice daily power-up that never, ever gets old.
Benefit: The feat ensemble of Quick Draw, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse and Precise Shot by 4th-level provides great combat flexibility involving longbows, elven curve sword, wakizashi, shurikens, and a light quickdraw shield + mithral chainshirt armor combination
Weakness: as is usual with rogues, will-save is abysmal. Have a plan for dealing with it.
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Since most of your damage comes from sneak attack, which isn't multiplied on a crit, I wouldn't put too much stock into the threat range of a wakizashi. And I agree that keeping enchantments up on two weapons (and your bite attack) is going to be prohibitively expensive; I think your best bet would be either:
-14 Str, 18 Dex, Weapon Finesse and Power Attack with an Elven Curved Blade
-OR 18-19 Dex, Claw Attack alternate racial trait, Weapon Finesse, and an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists ASAPDo you have any more specific goals with what this character should be able to do? Do you want to focus on damage?
I really just wanted to have a cool character to go with this mini, http://www.reapermini.com/forum/uploads/monthly_06_2013/post-7337-0-6907670 0-1372305470.jpg
I actually have the unmodified mini with the longsword but swapping out weapons isn't hard.
Well, the mini looks like he has a scimitar, so you could go dervish dance. But I'd still go with a curve blade + beak attack instead.
S:13 D:19 C:12 I:13 W:9 C:10 (Boost Dex every time)
Combat Expertise
Finesse Rogue
Blindfight, Tiger Trance
CT: Power Attack
Moonlight Stalker
Weapon Training, Crane Trance
Shadow Strike
Offensive Defense
Moonlight Feint, Monkey Trance
Opportunist
Gang Up
Improved Evasion, Dragon Trance
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Tengu ninja, Take #2, with a nod toward PFS survivability...(and an exercise to demonstrate how two routinely disparaged feats make beautiful music together).
Stats: (15,14,14,14,12,07 pre-racial 20pt array)
STR:14
DEX+17
CON-12
INT:07
WIS+14
CHA:14
Racial archetype: none
Traits: Berserker of the Society, Indomitable Faith
00 00 01/04/03 BAB; base save bonuses F/R/W
01 01 03/04/05 barb1 [urban] (rage 9 r/day), Iron Will
02 01 03/06/05 ninj1 SA+1d6
03 02 03/07/05 ninj2 [Finesse Rogue][Ki pool], Power Attack
04 03 04/07/06 ninj3 SA+2d6, DEX>18
05 04 06/07/06 fight1 [Lore Warden], Dodge, Mobility
06 05 07/07/06 fight2 [LW:Combat Expertise], Spring Attack
07 06 07/08/06 ninj4 [combat trick: Vital Strike]
08 06 07/08/06 ninj5 SA+3d6, DEX>19 or INT>8
Tactics: "normal" rage until 3rd, then DEX rage thereafter. Aim is to deliver one big attack per round, then retreat out of adversaries full-attack range (thus keeping action economy in your favor versus multiattack opponents).
Equipment at 8th: +1/Furious/Keen elven curve sword. Belt DEX+4, Ki replenishing item (any of various), Cloak of Resistance +3, cracked pale green ioun stone
Attack: 6(BAB)+8(DEX)+3(Furious)+2(flank)+1(ioun)-3(PA) = +17
Damage: 2d10(ECS+VS)+3(Furious)+3(STR)+9(PA)+3d6(sneak) = ~36.5 w/30% crit threat, or averaging over forty a swat. (Weapon Specialization would have to connect three times a round to exceed the 5.5 you're picking up from Vital Strike.)
Exploit: Combat Expertise with an INT of 7.
I'm a bit unclear on this. Are you suggesting Vital Strike + Spring Attack at the same time? Because that's not legal.
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My first PFS character was a Tengu Rogue, and he's currently level 12. I will be taking him through Eyes of the Ten next month.
Starting stats, after racial adjustments, were:
STR - 14 (5pts)
DEX - 19 (13pts) +1 @ 4th, 8th, and 12th
CON - 12 (5pts)
INT - 07 (+4pts)
WIS - 16 (5pts)
CHA - 07 (+4pts)
Feats and (Rogue Talents) were:
1st: Improved Initiative
2nd: (Finesse Rogue)
3rd: Power Attack
4th: (Trap Spotter)
5th: Weapon Focus, Claw
6th: (Weapon Training, Beak)
7th: Step Up
8th: (Combat Trick, Following Step)
9th: Combat Reflexes
10th: (Opportunist)
11th: Step Up and Strike
12th: (Feat, Skill Focus, Perception)
At level 12 his Disable Device is +35, and his Perception vs. Traps is +37. Ain't no traps gunna hurt his party.
He's a lot of fun, and I look forward to playing him again. It's been a while.
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James Jacobs isn't a member of the dev team and doesn't make rules. The official FAQ is clearly contradicting that post.
Yeah, I remember that post. It was overturned long ago.