So I like the kirin style for a duelist. I've come up with a build for the duelist and I'd like your opinion of it. One weakness is that the style has a lot of swift actions that do not stack, or take a while to get off. On to the build
Teifling
Str 10 Dex 18 con 14 int 18 wis 9 cha 7 (20 point buy)
I'm not 100% on the stats
Lore warden 1 Exotic weapon prof Dueling sword, weapon finesse
Lore warden 2 weapon focus dueling sword, Combat expertise (bonus feat for being a lore warden)
magus 1 dodge
magus 2
Magus 3 dazzling display (pre-req for Aldori Swordlord) magus arcana arcane accuracy
magus 4
Aldori Swordlord 1 Aldori dueling mastery (bonus feat), mobility
duelist 1
duelist 2 Imp unarmed strike
duelist 3
duelist 4 kirin style
duelist 5
duelist 6 kirin strike
duelist 7
duelist 8 kirin path
duelist 9
duelist 10 Power attack?
Two ability increases would go to dex, the other to to int. +6 item for both, max out monster knowledges, and put left over skill points in other knowledges and maybe linguistics
Tell me what you think, and if there are improvements I could make, especially if there is any way to get through the giant number of swift action the build requires aside from sitting down with the GM and saying that it is unreasonable to demand a swift action for any knowledge check
bump
Interesting. I like the Duelist as a class, it's got a lot of fun flair, but isn't always the best mechanical option. It looks like you're trying to squeeze some good stuff out of it through a lot of other class dips - probably not something I would do personally, but to each his own. I would probably recommend against power attack unless you find yourself in a group with a bard, or constantly getting lots of attack buffs. Otherwise the bonus to damage with a single handed weapon probably isn't going to cancel out the loss on attack rolls.
...especially if there is any way to get through the giant number of swift action the build requires aside from sitting down with the GM and saying that it is unreasonable to demand a swift action for any knowledge check
As for this, I personally view the swift action monster knowledge check as an intentional limitation of Kirin and would therefore never allow it to be bipassed. Then again, this makes Kirin Style a trap in my opinion, so I could see a GM house ruling it. I just wouldn't as I'm cautious about these sorts of things.
Kirin style would be soo awesome.
Particularly for a high int magus
But the swift actions kill it.
Magus would be awesome but it has competing uses for swift actions.
Eg rd 1- swift weapon enchant
Rd 2 either arcane Accuracy or kirin style
Rd 3 Knowledge check
Rd 4 kirin Strike.
This would be better on a fighter who doesn't have competing uses.
I would say LORE WARDEN (1 level MOMS monk) into Duelist.
Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll post a revised build when it's done
The new build
Same stats as before
1-1 Lore master weapon finess, dodge
2-1 kensai exotic weapon proficiency dueling sword, weapon focus dueling sword
3-2 kensai mobility
4-3 kensai arcane accuracy
5-4 kensai dazzling display
6-1 master of many styles stunning fist, imp unarmed strike, crane style
7-2 master of many styles crane wing, kirin style
8-1 Aldori Swordlord Aldori dueling mastery
9-1 Duelist two weapon fighting (to use armor spikes to parry)
10-2 Duelist
11-3 Duelist crane riposte
12-4 Duelist
13-5 Duelist kirin strike
14-6 Duelist
15-7 Duelist kirin path
16-8 Duelist
17-9 Duelist Imp two weapon fighting
18-10 Duelist
19-2 Lore warden greater two weapon fighting, combat expertese improved initiative
20-3 Master of many styles (for the speed increase does an armored monk still get that?)
The new build
9-1 Duelist two weapon fighting (to use armor spikes to parry)
17-9 Duelist Imp two weapon fighting
19-2 Lore warden greater two weapon fighting, combat expertese improved initiative
Reread Deft Strike. if you wield armor spikes you lose deft strike.
A swordlord cannot use this ability if he is wielding a shield or an off-hand weapon, including armor spikes, unarmed strikes, or natural weapons.
Here is a character I made a while ago. No swift action madness here. He was built 25 point buy.
I don’t remember the level breakdown after 10th, and feats after 13th, but I will give the naked values at the end.
Urban Barbarian 3 / Lore Warden 2 / MOMS 1 / Swordlord 4 / Duelist 10
Traits: Sword Scion (+1 hit with Dueling Sword) , Berserker of the Society (+3 rounds of Rage)
Str. 11
Dex. 16 (20 with Rage)
Con. 14
Int. 24 (after levels)
Wis. 10
Cha. 7
1)UB. Weapon finesse, Dodge
2)LW. Exotic Weapon Prof. Dueling Sword
3)UB. Weapon Focus Dueling Sword
4)LW. Mobility, Combat expertise
5)UB. Dazzling Display, Uncanny dodge (one less way to lose Canny defense)
6)SL. Dueling Mastery
7)D. feat (cannot remember)
8)D.
9)MOMS. IUC, Kirin style, Kirin Strike
10)D.
11)D. Crane wing
12)D.
13)D. Crane Riposte
14)D.
15)D.
16)D.
17)D.
18)SL.
19)SL.
20)SL.
Here is what you have totally naked except with dueling sword and mithral chain shirt. And raging into DEX.
Bab is 19/14/9/4
Total attack: (With this build you can fight defensively with no attack penalty)
26/21/16/11
Damage:
1d8 +17 and one swift action +14
AC:
Base+canny defense+dodge+fight defensively+armor+dex+shield= total
10+7+1+6+4+5+2=35
There are a couple more points in there that are situational.
14 of it is dodge bonus.
There it is. Please remember this is only with 2 pieces of non-magical equipment. you would want +6 dex and int items and celestial armor. and you can have furious on your weapon :)
Hope you enjoy.
Hmm, yours is better, I do like it though I'd usse celestial armor instead. Also the feat you forgot was crane style i think.
Also what rage power should one take?
How do you not take a minus 1 for fighting defensively?
I do like it though I'd usse celestial armor instead. Also the feat you forgot was crane style i think.
The build did use it an I noted that is what you would want once you got a DEX item. You Are right it is Crane style that I forgot.
Also what rage power should one take?
I don't remember what I took, but some suggestions are "Guarded Life", "Roused Anger",or "superstitious" (maybe).
How do you not take a minus 1 for fighting defensively?
here is how it works crane riposte makes fighting defensively -1. Then when you get Swordlord 4th level you get:
Adaptive Tactics (Ex)
At 4th level, a swordlord learns to adapt his fighting style to counter his enemy's strengths. A swordlord reduces the attack roll penalty for fighting defensively and/or using Combat Expertise by 1 at 4th level, increasing to 2 at 8th level.
you now have penalty of -0 to fighting defensively of Total Defense. You might want to mix up the levels of duelist and Swordlord to maximize when you can get this and 7th level of Duelist.
As a side note you can take a -4 to hit and add another +5 dodge to AC for Combat expertise.
There is a trait you can take (it may not stack with the pre existing traits) that reduces the penalties for combat expertise by one more, a good reason to take additional traits
In my above build you need to move MOMS to Level 7 and take crane style, Kirin Style, then kirin strike or crane wing at 9th.
Here is what I would have at 20th.
+5 furious, ghost touch, another +3 worth of abilities.
+5 celestial chain.
belt of +6 DEX/CON
+6 headband of Intellect.
book of dex +4
boots of speed
cloak of protection +5
Ring of Protection +5
so DEX: 30, INT :30
ATTACK:
38/38/33/28/23
there are some situational bonuses as well.
Damage:
dice+dex+enchantment+level
1d8+10+7+10= 1d8+27, +20 swift action
AC:
Base+canny defense+dodge+fight defensively+armor+dex+shield+enhancement+deflection= total
10+10+1+6+6+8+2+5+5=53 (-4 to hit for +5 Dodge, Combat Expertise)
There are a couple more points in there that are situational.
There is a trait you can take (it may not stack with the pre existing traits) that reduces the penalties for combat expertise by one more, a good reason to take additional traits
Yeh I forgot about that. if you take extra traits feat get bonus to int as well. you should be close to +20 depending on enchantments.
I've been looking for the trait that improves combat expertese, but I can't find it, do you know what it is? also how do I get a bonus to int from extra traits?
Found it, it doesn't stack with berserker of the society
I've been looking for the trait that improves combat expertese, but I can't find it, do you know what it is? also how do I get a bonus to int from extra traits?
sorry ment init. for initiative.