Ok so what im trying to figure out is whether or not the Beast Shape III option that the Imp Companion gets at 4th level advancement allow him to take an alternate form outside of the normal one size category larger or smaller then its original form deal? I mean two of the Change Shape options that a normal imp has dont fit into the normal size restrictions, and the entry for Imp Companion doesnt even say Change Shape. It says Alternate Form. Specifically written as,
4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Dex +2; Special Qualities one alternate form (beast shape I, boar, rat, or raven, or beast shape III, young giant spider); spell-like abilities (CL 6th), at will-- invisibility (self only), 1/day-- suggestion; spell-like ability (CL 12th), 1/week-- commune.
So what im wondering is if choosing the Beast Shape III option only allows him to become diminutive as a new option or if it allows him to also take an alternate form of a creature larger then Change Shape restrictions would normally allow, but a casting of the spell would, such as medium, large, and huge.
Emparawr wrote:
4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Dex +2; Special Qualities one alternate form (beast shape I, boar, rat, or raven, or beast shape III, young giant spider); spell-like abilities (CL 6th), at will-- invisibility (self only), 1/day-- suggestion; spell-like ability (CL 12th), 1/week-- commune.
So what im wondering is if choosing the Beast Shape III option only allows him to become diminutive as a new option or if it allows him to also take an alternate form of a creature larger then Change Shape restrictions would normally allow, but a casting of the spell would, such as medium, large, and huge.
It doesn't get change shape, it get exactly what is stated in the statblock.
One alternate form, chosen among the 4 possible choices: boar, rat, raven, or young giant spider.
The reason it refers to beast shape 3 for the spider is that it is the needed level to get the web ability.
I see your point but why would they not phrase it the same way they do all the others, with the spell used being at the END of the list, not the beginning. Very strange. Ok so im gonna have to do some more complicated and possibly expensive messing around with this minion to make it combat viable. Thanks for the info.
The forms are best for RP purposes to hide the true nature. Imps are generally not well received. For combat, imps are outstanding when given a several wands and spring loaded wrist sheathes. They lay havoc from a safe distance. They are never going to be able to be a melee combat buddy
Yeah that was my original intention. Although the Diabolist imp will be much better in combat since it progresses as an animal companion but my imp familiar wont be very good for combat so yes I was planning on going the wands route. Haven't done any research yet though on which ones would be most useful. Any recommendations?
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Are you joking me? My IMP is my true character, my poor diabolist cleric is clearly not.
You can pick up other forms with you bonus tricks by selecting this "trick":
Alternate Form: An imp with this ability may choose one additional Tiny, Small, or Medium animal form as if using beast shape II. Each time the imp selects this ability, it gains a new alternate form.
A shape with a Swim speed might be helpful. Some good combat forms include jaguar and eagle (since it can fly). My imp companion favors to turn into a black panther (jaguar) and took Improved Unarmed Strike to qualify for Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple. His grapple CMB is pretty good, so it isn't uncommon for him to Grab mooks and even some more powerful foes (especially casters). With the right magic item he could gain Constrict, but I haven't invested into that yet.
Remember that your Tiny imp will get a +4 to Str when polymorhing. Considering this he can actually be a fairly effective melee striker, pouncing on mooks or wherever a little extra damage is needed. It can help if you have Craft Wondrous Items and can create some amulets of mighty fists enchanted with the bane property. My Diabolist carries several and slips one onto the panther as appropriate depending on what foes we meet. Alternately the imp companion could make a pretty good Bodyguard.
Wands can be very useful too. My Diabolist took Improved Familiar to get an imp familiar too. The familiar buffs and heals the companion, and in our time off my PC has a devil on both shoulders.
Yeah my plan actually, barring getting an official ruling from Paizo before we start playing, is to have two Imp Familiars and the Imp Companion. I'm making a sorc/psion/cerebremancer character who is alllll about brain manipulation, skying, disguising, etc and the three imps are his little minion force. They're going to be named Id, Ego, and Superego (AC IMP). I think its pretty funny and appropriate. Being Neutral Evil has its perks.
They are the planar opposites of three monkeys on the celestial plane who are the See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil monkeys, except that these three imps are the See Evil, Hear Evil, Speak evil equivalent lol. Perfect for imps considering they spend their whole existence trying to lead mortal willingly into damnation. Even worked it out with my GM to have them be able to turn into tattoos on my body like the Tattooed Sorcerer familiar ability, and the image is going to have their three faces, each with its own gesture. IOW Hear Evil has his hands cupped over the back of his ears to hear better, Speak Evil has his hands cupped around his mouth like a speaker, and See Evil has his hands over his eyebrows as if hes looking out at a distance. All told its a very heavy investment of feats and other resources but the fluff, imagined visuals, comedy and role play potential are just endless and priceless.
As far as any combat potential goes however my original plan, due to familiars extremely low hp, (my hp is crap, D6 HDs Con +0), that my imp familiars would be wand casting on my shoulders, whereas the companion SuperEgo, would have some custom few uses per day magic items to make him more combat beefy such as 1/day Monstrous Physique 1 to turn into a Popobola (Kind of looks like a bigger cyclopean Imp), 1/day Righteous Vigor, etc. Then some from my caster casting Blood Rage on them on round 1 of a fight along with other physical PCs and pets in our group. I really wanted Ego and SuperEgo to be combat oriented like the Imp AC will be and have ID just be the little runt of the litter sneaky Pilferer imp who sits on the top of my head. However I haven't managed to find any way to raise one of the imp familiars up to anywhere near what the Imp AC will be.
On a total 100% homebrew note, I just had an idea. If my GM is feeling really frisky and is in a "to hell with the rules" mood when I talk to him next, I had considered offering him a trade. He had already agreed quite a long time ago when we first started making this char that it would be ok to take a level in Thrallherd, which with this chars high charisma would generally have him with a second character at 1 level lower then himself, which is an extrmemly powerful ability. I mean two characters? Yeah its strong stuff.
However I'm thinking of posing the idea of me giving up my Thrall that he already agreed to give me (not the followers though, I have....plans for them heheheh), for a second Imp AC like the diabolist's instead. I mean lets face it, a Thrall would be a hell of a lot more powerful then the Imp AC no matter what, due to the fact that its a PC not an AC. I think its a pretty fair trade, plus it gives me what I really wanted for this char, which is two stronger imps and a runt. Fits the fluff and the story way better and is actually LESS powerful. Hell on that note, due to the fact that I'm usually the powergamer of our group (Not a min maxer though as I believe there is a strong moral difference, visa vie, willingness to sacrifice story simply to be uber) I can totally see my GM being proud of me for this one rofl. Being willing to give up a powerful ability for a less powerful one that fits my characters story far far better.
Anyways does anybody have any recommendations for the familiar himself like wands that are rather useful, or maybe a way to capitalize on his steal abilites that he gets from the Pilferer archetype to run around the battlefield trying to jack enemies weapons.
If your DM allows Leadership that would be a "legal" way to get another imp, potentially one with class levels. Obviously Leadership has some potential pitfalls, but making the cohort an imp wouldn't make them any worse IMO.
For your imp familiar you might want to focus on wands which don't rely on directly attacking enemies. That would break the imp's invisibility, which can be a good defense for a familiar. Simple wands of Cure Moderate or Cure Serious can help out a lot. Low level utility stuff like Grease or Liberating Command can be helpful sometimes. Dimension Door is great if you've got enough gold for it. If you think you'll have downtime then Craft Wands is a good feat.
I guess this is turning more into Advice than a Rules Question though.
huh, come to think of it I guess instead of trading one ability for another, I could just make the cohort and Imp and use the appropriate pathfinder equivalent of level adjustment and then just level it like a character. That would make it significantly different from the other two Imps. Plus it looks like while were waiting for the other group my GM runs to get up to a sufficiently high level, my gf and I will be playing our new character with just the two of us and my GM so being OP wont be so much of a concern.
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