| Xenrac |
Say I have a fighter with the Feat Step up or any of it's higher level versions, and I engage an enemy with a Reach weapon.
If they take a five foot step back to get their full attack on me, and I activate Step up as an Immediate action to move out of their threatened squares, do they get their attack?
And with it's sequel Following Step, does such an action provoke an AoO?
| Scavion |
Nope! Since you move in as an immediate action before they make their attack since it triggers off their movement then they don't have time to full attack you before you move in next to them.
While a 5 foot step doesn't provoke, I would rule using the full 10 feet might. Following Step doesn't state that you don't provoke so that kinda sucks.
| StreamOfTheSky |
You have it right.
Step Up was intended to screw over casters, I believe. But of course... they can just make concentration checks and shrug it off anyway.
While as reach weapon users get hosed. Archers also get hosed, though some of them (fighter, zen archer, and ranger ONLY, as far as I know) can get Point Blank Master...several levels after Step Up is available and with multiple pre-req feats... in order to negate it.
Nasty feat. Won't be useful most of the time, but when it is, it auto-shuts down certain builds.
| Xenrac |
You have it right.
Step Up was intended to screw over casters, I believe. But of course... they can just make concentration checks and shrug it off anyway.
While as reach weapon users get hosed. Archers also get hosed, though some of them (fighter, zen archer, and ranger ONLY, as far as I know) can get Point Blank Master...several levels after Step Up is available and with multiple pre-req feats... in order to negate it.
Nasty feat. Won't be useful most of the time, but when it is, it auto-shuts down certain builds.
A related question, since it would somewhat further shut down range attackers, would Following Step trigger Wind Stance?
Kiliase
|
Step Up was intended to screw over casters, I believe. But of course... they can just make concentration checks and shrug it off anyway.
The concentration check for injured while casting is 10+damage dealt+spell level. That's pretty difficult curve for anyone with a two-handed weapon and power attack.
| fretgod99 |
StreamOfTheSky wrote:Step Up was intended to screw over casters, I believe. But of course... they can just make concentration checks and shrug it off anyway.The concentration check for injured while casting is 10+damage dealt+spell level. That's pretty difficult curve for anyone with a two-handed weapon and power attack.
Defensive casting is much easier, though.
Kiliase
|
Fair enough. The best use of this feat is versus archers who five foot away to make a full attack, or the Step Up and Strike to hit them.
Side question:
Benefit: When using the Step Up or Following Step feats to follow an adjacent foe, you may also make a single melee attack against that foe at your highest base attack bonus. This attack counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. Using this feat does not count toward the number of actions you can usually take each round.
Does this mean that you don't use up your immediate action to move in and hit the person?
| fretgod99 |
Using Step Up limits the distance you can move the next turn. Following Step does not limit your ability to move in the next round, but you don't get an automatic attack. Step Up and Strike lets you move without impacting your movement the next round and lets you make an immediate attack which does not impact the number of actions you make make in the following round (though it does use up an attack of opportunity).
I believe that language is intended to clarify that it doesn't impact actions the following round like Step Up does.
| Xenrac |
Kiliase wrote:Defensive casting is much easier, though.StreamOfTheSky wrote:Step Up was intended to screw over casters, I believe. But of course... they can just make concentration checks and shrug it off anyway.The concentration check for injured while casting is 10+damage dealt+spell level. That's pretty difficult curve for anyone with a two-handed weapon and power attack.
Follow up question on Step up and Strike then, what is the DC of trying to cast Defensively while taking damage?
15 + Damage + Double Spell level
Is my best guess, but I'm unsure how the base numbers and spell level modifiers for each check would stack, and I could see it as even:
10 + 15 + Damage + Triple Spell level
Which, since I'm a Magus, is a situation I could force them into by the time I grab Step Up and Strike. (Grab the Spell Breaker Arcana and add Counterstrike and I get an AoO from them casting Defensively no matter the spell outcome, so they may want to 5-foot step back, which I would use this feat to crush them, and still grab the AoO they give me because I'm a Kensai and I get Int mod AoO).
Huh... I like this build more and more. lol
EDIT: Just realized I said Fighter in the beginning. That was a hypothetical, my real character is a Magus, should have made that clear, but it didn't matter at the time.
| bbangerter |
@Xenrac, your damage from Step Up and Strike takes place before they begin casting (defensively or otherwise) so does not add to the DC to cast. That is they move, you follow up and strike. They can then choose to cast, attack, move again, whatever.
Likewise your damage from the AoO on counterstrike does not apply. You do not get the AoO until they have completed their attempt to cast.
...that enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the magus after the spell is complete. This attack of opportunity cannot disrupt the spell.
And to get both AoO's you will need a dex of 12+ and combat reflexes.
The only way to get an attack while they are casting defensively is if you ready an action to attack if they start casting. Here the rules don't explicitly define what happens, but a common sense rule is certainly DC 15 + 2 * level + damage.