I am building a PFS character based on Harry Dresden, the magic detective. My plan is as followed:
1:Bard (Detective)
2:Sorcerer (Elemental Fire?)
3:Sorcerer
4:Sorcerer
5:Sorcerer
6:Should I take a 5th level in sorcerer or go Detective and get Arcane Insight
7-12: Sleepless Detective
So as stated above, should I take my 6th level in Detective or Sorcerer? Which bloodline should I pick (Must involve fire and I prefer a blaster)? and as a human which feats should I grab?
I appreciate the help -
I am just about to startthose books, but I would def snag that second detective level. Also keep in mind you need some decent int to get full effect out of SD
currently I have a detective 3/grenadier alch 4/SD1 I love him
Personally I wouldn't split caster classes in this way - why not just do straight bard then Sorcerer or multiclass with a martial class (or rogue for the sneak attack synergy with Sleepless Detective).
Rogue levels will also help you qualify for Sleepless Detective - to get there by level 5 you need to have more than 3 skill ranks per level. You'll need to have:
Craft (alchemy), Perception and Sense Motive all at 5 ranks
Knowledge Local (2 ranks)
at a minimum I would suggest the Bard level not be your first level - since at first level you can only put 1 skill rank into any given skill - the extra skill ranks you get as a Bard vs a Sorcerer (or many other classes) wouldn't be able to help you qualify.
Further - a bard without ranks in perform is somewhat limited - so you probably want to have more skill tanks than just the minimum to qualify. But a higher INT score doesn't really help you much (though eventually a Sleepless Detective does benefit from a good INT score - but Bard and Sorcerer are both CHA based skills).
Instead I would suggest a few levels as a Rogue (Investigator) - perhaps with some other archetypes and the rest as Bard (Detective). At 2nd level as a Bard you will get some really nice benefits - including trapfinding (so you can still disable magical traps - though probably not as well as a pure rogue) and the investigator rogue archetype ability is a decent one.
I guess I should have posted my scores:
7
14
14
12
12
18 (human)
If I take sorcerer levels up to 4 then take bard for my 5-6 I could probably get the pre reqs for sleepless detective. Having 4 skill points per level as a sorcerer I could put one in craft, perception, sense motive and perform. I have no problem not having skill points but my main problem is the bloodline and feats. What would you recommend?
My recommendation? Just be an actual Wizard and take some investigation type skills (Knowledge: Local, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Perception).
Detective is a terrible Bard archetype, and I don't understand why you'd go for a Fire sorcerer at all.
The other option to consider would be a Wizard, with a familiar and discuss whether the alertness feat you get with your familiar nearby qualifies for the Prestige Class (in my home games it certainly would - for PFS play I think it is slightly less clear). That route could save you a feat.
But worth remembering that since a detective probably wants good perception and sense motive skills as well as diplomacy you are quite a MAD character needing good INT, great CHA, decent WILL and if you want to be ok in combat you need either STR or DEX (I'd probably suggest DEX) and you don't ever want to dump CON too much.
Lots of good racial options to consider - if you don't mind not being a human you could consider tieflings or aasimars that might offer some good stats and useful abilities (tieflings w/darkness and the midnight stalker line of feats can be pretty nifty - though darkness by a PC in PFS play can disrupt the party).
A slightly unusual option to take would be to look at the Carnivalist rogue archetype from Animal Archive (which does stack with the Investigator archetype). if you do your sneak attack progression is slower than normal rogues and you don't get early rogue talents. But you would get more bardic performance and crucially would start from level 1 with a familiar (thus alertness) so might be fun (and you get to use handle animal for your pet performances...)
mplindustries wrote: My recommendation? Just be an actual Wizard and take some investigation type skills (Knowledge: Local, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Perception).
Detective is a terrible Bard archetype, and I don't understand why you'd go for a Fire sorcerer at all.
Well in the Dresden Files series the main character mainly uses fire magic, thats the reasoning. I am not interested in min maxing I just want to do fire damage and be a decent investigator.
But wizards get fire magic. Just take fire spells.
The big advantage is that
a) you're a wizard, like Dresden
B) if you need to cast see invisibility, or detect secret doors, it's no problem
( by the way, year five is year of the demon. They're often fireproof)
Remember in the Dresden Files series a lot of time Dresden uses Divination over Deduction.
The real trick is Bob.
Harakani wrote: Remember in the Dresden Files series a lot of time Dresden uses Divination over Deduction.
The real trick is Bob.
Which I would say is simply a custom Familiar. It clearly has a bunch of skill ranks but not too much otherwise(aside from some variation of ethereal jaunt). It could even just be a Planar Ally(or the arcane equivalent).
I too think Dresden is a Wizard. He can do just about anything, but clearly is specialized(perhaps pick the fire school if reg evocation isn't enough for you). Then alot your skills as you like, maybe put illusions as a restricted school or something.
a detective bard does not need perform.
MiniGM wrote: a detective bard does not need perform. Wouldn't they need some ranks in Perform to be able to then do the bardic performances of Careful Teamwork, True Confession, and Show Yourselves?
DungeonMastering.com wrote: MiniGM wrote: a detective bard does not need perform. Wouldn't they need some ranks in Perform to be able to then do the bardic performances of Careful Teamwork, True Confession, and Show Yourselves? Bardic Performances only require a Perform skill if they say they do, like, say, countersong. The vast majority don't, though.
Hmm. RAW: "Bardic Performance: A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired."
Countersong= Perform (keyboard, percussion, wind, string, or sing)
Distraction= Perform (act, comedy, dance, or oratory)
Fascinate, Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Dirge of Doom, Inspire Greatness, Soothing Performance, Frightening Tune, Deadly Performance= "a bard can use his performance"
Inspire Heroics simply says, "This effect lasts for as long as the targets are able to witness the performance."
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
I can't recall if detective keeps those but in any event there is almost never a use for those skills the main features do not require the roll of a perform check.
I have played many a bard and have come across a use for countersong and distraction a grand total of 3 times.
Detective's Careful Teamwork replaces inspire courage while True Confession replaces inspire greatness and Show Yourselves replaces inspire heroics.
All of which refer to the Bard doing performance, which requires a Perform skill check.
Now Perform is Untrained for some reason, but if you put at least 1 Rank into any 1 type of Perform skill you'd get approximately a +6 on those checks: 1 Rank + 3 bonus from Class Skill + 2 average Bard Charisma. Not only a very decent investment but also thematically appropriate.
To have a Bard not have any ranks in any Perform skills seems against rules as meant, IMO: there may not be an actual Perform check DC (which is weird to me) but it's clear RAW that the Bard is doing a performance via skills to create all these effects.
DungeonMastering.com wrote: Detective's Careful Teamwork replaces inspire courage while True Confession replaces inspire greatness and Show Yourselves replaces inspire heroics.
All of which refer to the Bard doing performance, which requires a Perform skill check.
Doesn't matter. The performance referenced is the class ability, not the skill. You can be a successful bard with zero ranks of perform.
DungeonMastering.com wrote: To have a Bard not have any ranks in any Perform skills seems against rules as meant, IMO: there may not be an actual Perform check but it's clear RAW that the Bard is doing a performance via skills to create all these effects. It's really not an issue. You can totally do it.
Regarding this: mplindustries wrote: The performance referenced is the class ability, not the skill. But the class ability (Bardic Performance) specifically references the skill: i.e. "use the Perform skill." Just saying.
Again, I know that ANY Perform can be done Untrained (which is wacky to me but the subject for another thread) so yes, technically, RAW, you can have a Bard not put ANY ranks into ANY of their Perform skills & still make Bardic Performances. Please pardon my eye roll, it's part of my Perform, Act.
However some bardic performances specifically say, "use the bard's Perform check result in place of its saving throw."
And the Perform skill says: "Special: A bard must have ranks in specific Perform categories to use some of his Bardic Performance abilities."At the very least these are Countersong + Distraction, but RAI I'd think there'd be more.
So while I suppose you could have a Bard who sticks all of his skill ranks into non-Perform places, putting at least 1 into 1 Perform (granting a +6ish bonus) would seem to be keeping with both the spirit of the class ability as well as a possibly helping out your party.
To respond to the OP, there is a big difference between a generic "Magical Detective" & 'Harry Dresden.'
You might get more input (say from fans of the show) if you edit your thread's subject to 'Creating Harry Dresden.' Just a thought.
Having read the books I would say that Harry closer to a pure Wizard. Neither Wizard nor Sorcerer really reflects the magic style of the books, but a Wizard is probably closer. Also I don’t see Harry’s charisma being higher than his intelligence. You would be better off taking straight Wizard and maxing out your intelligence. You will get more skill points as a Wizard due to higher intelligence.
Harry is also a powerful combat caster. Diluting your caster level is going to weaken your combat abilities. Most of the books end up with him in a battle with almost overwhelming forces that he manages to beat with a combination of sheer magical power and brilliant tactics. To me that says pure wizard with a high intelligence.
Also a lot of his power comes from items not just spells. Admittedly he made most of them.
I haven't read all the Dresden books but from what I recall about him he strikes me as closer to an actual Wizard than a sorcerer. Perhaps with an improved familiar (though that might mean you don't qualify for Sleepless Detective unless you take the actual Alertness feat.
Personally I don't think the Sleepless Detective prestige class though quite nifty is very good for an actual caster - I think it is a better prestige class for a non-caster as many of the abilities are ones that most casters get at 1st level. It is also designed to really reward an INT based character with a bunch of bonuses to what are usually WIS and CHA skills (but are stuff any good detective really should do very well - perception, sense motive, diplomacy for gather information).
Thus it is a great class for say a Rogue skill monkey build that wants to get some magic w/o (or perhaps in addition to) the rogue magic talents. Rogues really like having access to detect magic for example - and the bonus to sneak attacks is nice. The 3/4 bab progression. But overall I think it is a fairly weak Prestige Class (granting a minor addition to a 0-level ability is pretty minor indeed, though the sneak attack and INT to a bunch of non-INT skills is nifty enough).
(My 20 INT rogue/fighter/monk skill monkey has considered building towards the class but it would require some skill ranks he hasn't yet spent as well as a full feat he has other, better uses for - though the INT bonuses to a bunch of skills on top of the boost from Alertness might be worth it. And the boost to his sneak dice would be useful enough.
Rycaut wrote: Personally I don't think the Sleepless Detective prestige class though quite nifty is very good for anyone ever I fixed that for you.
Sleepless Detective is a worthless prestige class that adds nothing helpful. It's all about skills, which are irrelevant by mid game, and terrible rogue talents that nobody should waste their time taking.
Seriously, Harry Dresden is just a Wizard. Maybe with a familiar, maybe just with an intelligent magic item or cohort. Maybe he's a magus with that hockey stick (though I guess that might just be from the TV show).
Or, really, the best advice is to play a different game that more closely parallels magic in the Dresdenverse. Hint: Vancian magic fits zero magical paradigms in any medium except those created by Vance himself and those specifically trying to mimic D&D magic.
Personally, I'd use Savage Worlds with the no power point variant and some kind of ritual magic added. Or, you could use the actual Dresden Files RPG. I wouldn't play it because it uses the FATE system, which I hate with a passion, but many seem to enjoy it and I've heard it's very faithful to the setting.
I probably will end up going Fire Wizard/detective. I'm not really planning on doing much damage with this character I just want the option to do some fire damage. Now which feats would you all use? Also what 20 point buy should I use to utilize both charisma and int?
Per Wikipedia, something to consider spell-wise as well as roleplay-wise if you're looking to 'really' play Harry Dresden:
"Harry is considered a magical "thug," lacking fine control of his power, but is one of the strongest living wizards in terms of pure magical strength, as well as factors surrounding the timing of his birth. He originally favored fire and wind spells in battle, but has since evolved towards fire and kinetic force, and has recently started using earth, Lightning, and has used water at least once.
He is also an expert at tracking spells (which he uses in his investigations) along with summoning and entrapment spells to speak to faeries and other supernatural sources of information. Due to his lack of finer control, Harry often must rely on magical items to help focus and channel his magical energy, such as his staff, blasting rod, shield bracelet, and force rings. In Changes, we see the first instances of Harry using wide area war magic, fire and ice combinations, and pure ice magic. He's also gotten much better at using Veils and tighter control of his fire spells because of teaching his apprentice Molly Carpenter.
Harry has also been known to carry around many firearms such as a .38 revolver, a .357, and most recently a .44 revolver and a sawed-off pump shotgun for those times when 'magic just doesn't cut it'."
Also, even if game-wise you aren't required to put any Ranks into any Perform skills, Harry Dresden clearly did:
Harry is an accomplished ballroom dancer, having worked professionally as a dance partner for retirees. He uses this ability in Death Masks, dancing with Susan Rodriguez. He is much less comfortable with other forms of dance.
There is also:
"One of Harry's latent, if not more useless, talents is his wit and the ability to use that wit infused with pop culture references. Most times Harry can insult a more powerful being and be long gone before the being realizes it's been insulted. He often lays sarcasm on thickly when dealing with people whom he does not like, such as Marcone. Harry seems to enjoy using Bugs Bunny and Yoda lines in particular.
...which might be a Perform, Comedy check vs target's Sense Motive.
Both of these Perform skills would help well-roundedness of the character, provide for roleplaying opportunities, & just make him more believable as a 'living' person.
Maybe a magus would describe him better? He might prepare a few spells, but then rely on Spell Recall to "spontaneously" cast some spells. Arcana can be used to get a familiar (Bob), and maybe Leadership (Mouse, the Pizza Patrol or whatever all those fairies are called).
I once made a homebrew trait (possibly called Sarcastic Detective), where you got a -1 penalty on Diplomacy to change a character's attitude, but got a +1 bonus per rank to make Gather Information checks.
|
