RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As long as a player has a magic folio on the table in front of her, or is wearing a magic shirt, I will be happy to allow her a re-roll. As long as she presents her PFS card with the requisite number of stars, she would get the bonus to the re-roll.
I don't want to keep track of who gave which other player a magic reroll. If Player A owns a folio, and usually loans it to Player B, but in this case Player B passes it to Player C, whose GM-star-bonus do I use? (My answer: C's.)
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Technically the guide says the player may reroll one d20 during the session. It does not state it must have been one of their own rolls.
That strand of logic will not end until someone says it to support a player using their reroll to make the GM reroll the BBEG's crit-confirmation against any PC...
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As long as a player has a magic folio on the table in front of her, or is wearing a magic shirt, I will be happy to allow her a re-roll. As long as she presents her PFS card with the requisite number of stars, she would get the bonus to the re-roll.
I don't want to keep track of who gave which other player a magic reroll. If Player A owns a folio, and usually loans it to Player B, but in this case Player B passes it to Player C, whose GM-star-bonus do I use? (My answer: C's.)
This is probably how I would rule it too.
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This is probably how I would rule it too.As long as a player has a magic folio on the table in front of her, or is wearing a magic shirt, I will be happy to allow her a re-roll. As long as she presents her PFS card with the requisite number of stars, she would get the bonus to the re-roll.
I don't want to keep track of who gave which other player a magic reroll. If Player A owns a folio, and usually loans it to Player B, but in this case Player B passes it to Player C, whose GM-star-bonus do I use? (My answer: C's.)
Agreed. Pass the reroll if you want. Your stars stay with you.
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Technically the guide says the player may reroll one d20 during the session. It does not state it must have been one of their own rolls.That strand of logic will not end until someone says it to support a player using their reroll to make the GM reroll the BBEG's crit-confirmation against any PC...
If we want to be technical, the player would have to be the one who rolled the die the first time if they are going to REroll it. Since the GM rolled the crit, tough luck.
;)
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Agreed. Pass the reroll if you want. Your stars stay with you.This is probably how I would rule it too.As long as a player has a magic folio on the table in front of her, or is wearing a magic shirt, I will be happy to allow her a re-roll. As long as she presents her PFS card with the requisite number of stars, she would get the bonus to the re-roll.
I don't want to keep track of who gave which other player a magic reroll. If Player A owns a folio, and usually loans it to Player B, but in this case Player B passes it to Player C, whose GM-star-bonus do I use? (My answer: C's.)
ditto
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There are two cases:
1 - a player offers a shirt or folio to players at a table before the game starts (or while the game is going on) for them to make their own rerolls - that I'm sure would use the stars of that specific player (and as a player or a GM I have no problems with this practice - Paizo has been supported and it is a case of players helping players which I always want to see)
2 - the case I was asking about is the fairly common, at least around here, case where a player at the table offers THEIR "reroll" for another player's character - usually as a last ditch effort to ensure someone doesn't die/the bbeg doesn't get away etc. As a player and a GM I haven't really had a problem with this either (still just the same number of rerolls and until the GM Stars bonuses it was very game breaking, it was again a case of players helping players - this time at a real risk for themselves (since they would no longer have a reroll to use in the future for their character) but now with the GM Stars boost it is a bit less clear what should happen.
Probably I would still say it is the player who is rolling the die's stars that matter - but this does then open up the further edge case of a player getting to use their GM stars benefit multiple times in a single scenario if other players lent that player their rerolls.... could be slightly abusive (though tempered a bit by the fact that most 3/4/5 star GMs likely won't encourage such activity even if technically allowed....
(but consider a scenario like Bonekeep or anything with a Hard Mode...
It is not within the rules for re-rolls to pass to other players. I have no problem if a GM allows it. I've allowed it in the past, especially at low level or brand newby tables.
But strictly RAW, you only get a reroll if you, yourself, qualify for one.
That being said, even if I were to allow a reroll to be passed, I certainly would not allow GM stars to be passed.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Rycaut, I wouldn't allow your Case 2 at my table. As GM, I'll usually donate my folio / shirt reroll to the table as a whole, to "those at the table who don't have a re-roll themselves". (I do this unless the party decides they want to play in some sort of "hard mode". For example, choosing to play up before Season 5.)
I don't allow players to do the same.
I just wish you could use your shirt/folio to make your GM reroll.
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So, this leads me to ask:
Do GM's get re-rolls? I have never used one as a GM. But, let's assume that I do. I don't have a problem letting a player use it instead of me, for some of the reasons some said above (and, honestly, I'd be more inclined to do that than fudge die rolls on behalf of the players.)
As for the bonus for my stars (well, my soon-to-be first star, which should come in a few weeks), no, I wouldn't pass those on. I mean, as a GM, I earned them, and I think to pass those bonuses around (even if it's only one time per scenario) cheapens them, I think. If we effectively give out GM benefits to people who didn't earn them, it seems that those benefits would be of lesser value, in my opinion, anyway.
YMMV.
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Given that sharing re-rolls isn't in the rules anywhere, asking for a ruling on the details surrounding it seems pretty silly.
Personally, I allow shared re-rolls at my tables, and often donate my Folio re-roll when GMing. As a GM, I'd rule that the GM stars rule applies to the player who is re-rolling, in all situations, regardless of the source of their re-roll.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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nosig, no.
I would have already explained, at the beginning of the session, that I would allow a reroll for people who had a magic folio on the table in front of them, or for people who were wearing a magic shirt.
The hypothetical newbie fits neither of those categories, and he already knows it.
If the guy sitting next to him wanted to loan his folio, that's great, but "after the bad die roll" is too late.
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If you have a different policy as a GM, that's fine. We don't all have to agree on this.
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Sadly, I didn't bring my PFS ID tag, so they don't get mine.
If they have a PFS ID card with stars, on them, then sure.
here's a scenario:
Newbie rolls a save - and rolls a nat 1.
Guy beside him says, "hay dude - use my folio to re-roll that!" and passes him his folio...
and I say "sure! and here's my PFS ID card! use my two (soon three) stars to bump it up a bit..."so... does that work?
This is a trap question.
Because if Chris says "No, I follow the rules." The answer comes back "Chris hates newbies and is mean to new folk."
But if Chris says "Yes, I will break the rules just this once for this sort of circumstance." Then he sets the precedent that he breaks the rules.
Why do folks feel the need to even create tear-jerker sympathy hypotheticals like this anyways?
When I was at GenCon, one of my GMs indicated that the folios can now only be used with a character actually filled in it. Meaning, you can’t have a blank folio to use for all characters.
I never heard that rule at all. Checked in the season 5 PFSOPG, nothing. Checked with other GMs at GenCon, and at our local store, they hadn’t heard anything. And the one that said this was a 4-5 star GM (ran Day of the Demon) and was a Venture Captain. I asked John Compton and he didn’t hear anything about that change, so that was a good enough for me.
Has anyone else heard this ‘new’ rule?
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When I was at GenCon, one of my GMs indicated that the folios can now only be used with a character actually filled in it. Meaning, you can’t have a blank folio to use for all characters.
I never heard that rule at all. Checked in the season 5 PFSOPG, nothing. Checked with other GMs at GenCon, and at our local store, they hadn’t heard anything. And the one that said this was a 4-5 star GM (ran Day of the Demon) and was a Venture Captain. I asked John Compton and he didn’t hear anything about that change, so that was a good enough for me.
Has anyone else heard this ‘new’ rule?
Mike Brock has said the opposite in the past on these forums. You just have to have it on the table.
You mean have it on the table as in having it on you?
I keep it in my backpack and then just bring it out and show it when I want to do a reroll.
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As written, the rule states:
"If a player is using a physical copy (not a PDF, printout,
or photocopy) of the Pathfinder RPG Player Character Folio,
he receives a free reroll. No player may receive more than
one free reroll per session."
It is possible that the GM interpreted "using" as to meaning that it had to be filled out or whatever. I think that's a hyper-literal reading of the rule, but I think it's a valid one (though, I note that someone said that Mike has stated the opposite, though I haven't seen that for myself.)
I wouldn't rule that it had to filled out, but maybe that GM did (based on this rule - and maybe the GM wasn't aware that, it seems, the official word is that no, it only has to be on the table.)
Mark,
He let me make the reroll at the time (even though I didn’t have it filled out), but said that the new rule is the folio has to be filled out and can only be used for that character.
However, as Mike has stated otherwise, this apparently is not the case.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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here's a scenario:
Newbie rolls a save - and rolls a nat 1.
Guy beside him says, "hay dude - use my folio to re-roll that!" and passes him his folio...so... does that work?
This is a trap question, because if Chris says "No, I follow the rules," the answer comes back "Chris hates newbies and is mean to new folk."
If the criteria for "hate" or "being mean" is enforcing the rule that rolling a "1" means a failed saving throw, then I'll be happy to fess up to being mean. Or, as I like to call it "being fair".
What I will do, is if the player is a child, I will stop refering to the PC in the second person as soon as combat looks like it might get dicey. Not "you failed the saving throw; you take points of damage and die" but rather "the spell hits Feanol square in the chest, before he gets a chance to roll out of the way. He takes the full brunt of the spell! He gets one chance to speak his dying words before Pharasma claims him."
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I keep [my folio] in my backpack and then just bring it out and show it when I want to do a reroll.
Hobbun, that wouldn't work at my table, and you'd know it from my opening spiel.
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Since part of the reason for allowing re-rolls for t-shirts and folios is to advertise that we are, indeed, playing Pathfinder, I would recommend keeping them out where they can be seen. As has been covered in other threads, there's some debate about whether the shirt needs to be worn or not (please don't wear the same shirt 4 days in a row at a con so you can get rerolls off it), but the baseline seems to be that these should be displayed in some manner.
To keep this on-topic to the thread, I would say you cannot loan your stars out. The bonus is a reward for the GMs that donate their time to making it possible for others to play.
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Technically the guide says the player may reroll one d20 during the session. It does not state it must have been one of their own rolls.That strand of logic will not end until someone says it to support a player using their reroll to make the GM reroll the BBEG's crit-confirmation against any PC...
I did say 'technically'. No one wants to get technical, of course.
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You mean have it on the table as in having it on you?
I keep it in my backpack and then just bring it out and show it when I want to do a reroll.
No, it has to be physically on the table during game play (by rule).
But whoever the V-C/V-L/4-star or higher was, they were 100% wrong about what they told you.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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As a GM, I will usually donate my shirt re-roll to the table for use by any character who does not have their own re-roll. This practice is supported by Paizo (I believe there's a FAQ entry or forum post from Mike Brock to that effect, but I don't have it bookmarked).
I would not allow a player to donate a re-roll to the table at large; they would have to designate a recipient up front, and the qualifying item would have to be passed to the other player for the duration of the game. As a player I carry an additional character folio for just this purpose.
If I am GMing a table with multiple novice players I will sometimes loan out my extra character folio to a designated player as well as donating 'my' re-roll to the table at large. If that re-roll is from a shirt, I could also loan out my primary character folio to yet another player, but to date there has been no need for that.
The rules explicitly state No player may receive more than one free re-roll per session (GtPFSOP, p27), so I would not allow that. Nor would I allow the transfer of GM star benefits; the player making the re-roll has to show his own PFS ID card to receive the benefit, not a card belonging to somebody else.
[Edit: clarified that I was talking about a shirt re-roll in the first paragraph]
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here's a scenario:
Newbie rolls a save - and rolls a nat 1.
Guy beside him says, "hay dude - use my folio to re-roll that!" and passes him his folio...so... does that work?
This is a trap question, because if Chris says "No, I follow the rules," the answer comes back "Chris hates newbies and is mean to new folk."If the criteria for "hate" or "being mean" is enforcing the rule that rolling a "1" means a failed saving throw, then I'll be happy to fess up to being mean. Or, as I like to call it "being fair".
What I will do, is if the player is a child, I will stop refering to the PC in the second person as soon as combat looks like it might get dicey. Not "you failed the saving throw; you take 2d8+3 points of damage and die" but rather "the spell hits Feanol square in the chest, before he gets a chance to roll out of the way. He takes the full brunt of the spell! He gets one chance to speak his dying words before Pharasma claims him."
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I certainly wouldn't claim you as being mean. But folks have a tendency to write these trap questions so they can say crap like that.
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See Mike Brock's posts in this thread.
Specifically, in answer to printed copies of the folio pdf:
We want players to see it on a table and wonder what it is, possibly walk up and want to look at it, leading to a possible sale in the future. Printed out pages don't draw that same attention.
In answer to whether the folio has to be filled out with the PC you're currently playing:
As long as it is on the table, you are good to go.
I'm sure if there was a rule change for this, there would have been an uproar around here that we'd all know about.
Hobbun, that wouldn't work at my table, and you'd know it from my opening spiel.
If it’s a big deal to keep it on the table, I will. Not trying to hide anything. I just try to keep as much books/material off the table as I can, to keep down clutter. Many times we don’t have a lot of working space where we sit.
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also, the term "use" as quoted from the Guide for the Folio, is, in my mind, interpreted as "use it for a reroll". Not "use it for your character."
Except the construct is "...IF a player is using...he receives a free re-roll." Accordingly, "using" the item is a condition to get the re-roll, not the re-roll itself.
Again, I don't subscribe to the hyper-interpretation of the rule, which has already been clarified anyone. If a player at my table has the physical copy of the folio on the table (and not a printed version or whatever), that player is entitled to a free re-roll.
That seems clear to me.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hobbun, not a problem. I wouldn't figure most people to be hiding their re-rolls, but I try to keep to what actual rules about these thing as we've got.
For what it's worth, there are GMs who also follow that rule and don't always spell that out ahead of time. You might want to start asking.
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also, the term "use" as quoted from the Guide for the Folio, is, in my mind, interpreted as "use it for a reroll". Not "use it for your character."Except the construct is "...IF a player is using...he receives a free re-roll." Accordingly, "using" the item is a condition to get the re-roll, not the re-roll itself.
Again, I don't subscribe to the hyper-interpretation of the rule, which has already been clarified anyone. If a player at my table has the physical copy of the folio on the table (and not a printed version or whatever), that player is entitled to a free re-roll.
That seems clear to me.
The rules do say that you have to be using the Folio to get the reroll. They don't specify what you have to be using it for. Here are some possibilities:
- Using it as the character sheet for your PC.
- Using it to reference the material printed inside.
- Using it as a folder to hold your character sheet that is written/printed on other paper.
- Using it as a coaster for your drink.
- Using it as a paper airplane.
- Using it to fan yourself.
- Using it to fan the GM, because you're a total brown noser.
- Using it for marketing purposes, showing off that you get a re-roll, so people will want to buy one, too.
- Using it for marketing purposes, so people walking by the table will see the title and know what game you're playing.
I'm fairly certain that any of these meets the RAW requirement of using the Folio to get a re-roll. The first one and last two even go along with the RAI.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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If your argument is based on the technical definition of the word use, you can be pretty sure it's a bad argument, because the people writing the rules weren't taking the time to cunningly employ those precise shades of meaning when they were giving you a fun way to keep your character alive.
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Well, I wasn't making the argument that, at my table, you have to be using as a character sheet. I said having it on the table was sufficient enough (as long as it is the printed copy.)
But, if we are going to be discussing semantics, as others have done here, then let's acknowledge the technical construction of the sentence (which really isn't important here - Mike has already said having it on the table is enough, which means, to Paizo, "using" means having it on the table.)
And I agree with Fromper - any of the thing he has listed there, I think, would certainly suffice (assuming it were necessary, but it's not, as we already know what is required.)
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I'm fully in support of this one. "Using it as a tray to deliver free drinks to the GM," is equally valid.Using it to fan the GM, because you're a total brown noser. +1
Same if you served me a slice of pizza or other delicious food on it (with a plate or paper towel between them, of course).