Greetings,
Now, the group I play with has always done critical hits like, only the weapon dice gets multiplied.
I recently made a Goblin Cavalier.
Level 1
Str: 16
Lance: 1d6.
Well we were fighting an Ogre and I charged him. I scored a critical hit and when the GM told me the added dice but only add your strength once as per the rulebook. I did dispute it because I did do my fair share of research into the Cavalier to bring out my Goblin's potential in damage.
Needless to say, it was a minor dispute, but instead of fully arguing and pissing off the group I agreed to just take the extra dice damage, plus my strength. Ogre still died in one critical charge anyways.
So after, we pulled out the rulebook. I pointed out some parts of the Critical Hit section than he found this piece.
-Extra damage over and above a weapon's normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit. (Pg. 144 CR)
Thus he believes it means strength and other bonuses are not multiplied. But I have seen countless forums where strength, powerattack and other damage bonuses are multiplied. I pointed out the statement before it.
-When your character scores a critical hit, roll the damage two, three, or four times, as indicated by its critical multiplier (using all applicable modifiers on each roll), and add all the results together. (Pg. 144 CR)
Now, I believe that I am correct in that strength gets multiplied. But what I need is a good explanation on what this covers so we know for future sessions to prevent complications.
We have always played by the rule that only weapon dice is multiplied by critical hits, but since we are following Core Rulebook completely now to quote it. Then yes, what does the first statement cover with damage above and beyond the weapons damage?
PS: Sorry for the long ass explanation.
Regards,
Goblin Cavalier
Quote: A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. The only damage that doesn't get multiplied are extra dice of damage, such as from sneak attack and flaming weapons, and from sources that specifically say they are not multiplied on a critical hit.
That isn't what I read
PRD wrote:
Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.
Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue's sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon abilities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
Unless its precision, or special weapon abilities, you're golden.
Well just so we all know from here out, what exactly does this statement cover?
-Extra damage over and above a weapon's normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit. (Pg. 144 CR)
Because he does believe that covers strength damage and only solid explanation will work.
RavanPyreloft wrote: Well just so we all know from here out, what exactly does this statement cover?
-Extra damage over and above a weapon's normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit. (Pg. 144 CR)
Because he does believe that covers strength damage and only solid explanation will work.
Quote: Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue's sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon abilities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
Pretty sure the extra damage over and above is referring to stuff like flaming or sneak attack. Ive never heard of anyone not multiplying strength. Its kind of one of the fun parts of being a martial.
From the combat section of the PRD, under Damage : Quote: Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.
A "weapon normal damage" is its base damage dice plus all static modifiers : strength, class bonuses (Favored enemy, weapon spec, weapon training, challenge, etc). Very few static bonuses are not subject to this rule, and it's usually explicitly noted.
The exception is for additional damage coming in the form of dice. Sneak attack, flaming property, etc, are never multiplied on a critical hit. From the top of my head, I don't know any exceptions to this rule.
I've never noticed myself, but the wording could effectively be clearer. (and it may be worse in the CRB, but I don't use it much because you know, Internet.)
EDIT : Just noticed that David_Bross has another rule excerpts from the PRD that says the same thing in a different way. That's two sources clarifying the intent and mechanics of criticals to show your GM.
Brought it up with GM, apparently I am just min-maxing now by bringing this up. Stating how he would have to alter his encounters to cover the type of BS such as a charging Cavalier.
Even though I explained to him that I still need to roll a perfect 20 anyways to try and even get the critical chance to do that damage.
I dunno, I just think by his rules by only multiplying the weapon dice that I will certainly taper off in damage in comparison to the parties mage and rogues. Just my opinion.
Lets see, how to shut down a mounted cavalier.
Command on mount to trip/anything targeting your mount.
Killing your mount.
Flying enemies.
Going inside buildings, I.E not suitable to bring an animal in, Surprise encounter!
If hes raging about lance charge damage then I worry when yall get higher level and the mage gets access to his gamebreakers.
On the plus side, if his bad guys get a critical it doesn't hurt as much :-)
Speaker for the Dead wrote: On the plus side, if his bad guys get a critical it doesn't hurt as much :-) On the minus side, martials are in for a harder time and don't get to have cool (really) big hits.
This trend of DM afraid of losing "control" on their game is annoying. A GM is here to let campaigns evolve and live free, not limit them with arbitrary rulings.
That aside, this means that you'll either soon play mostly casters, or build melee classes to depend on crits as little as possible (very feasible with minimal damage loss). This decision achieves nothing regarding balance and diminishes build diversity.
As Speaker for the Dead said though, in the meantime, enjoy the fact that you'll probably never be killed by a lucky crit from a monster. (which is an interesting good side effect of this decision)
RavanPyreloft wrote: Brought it up with GM, apparently I am just min-maxing now by bringing this up. Stating how he would have to alter his encounters to cover the type of BS such as a charging Cavalier. Since when is "min-maxing" such a bad thing, and a type of BS? Honestly, some GMs apparently just want to be storytelling babysitters...
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