| BryonD |
Are there any official rulings or clarification on this?
RAW seems clear that the swarm is a monster just like any other and heal normally.
It makes sense that single target spells are useless.
It makes sense that burst spells do more damage. By this reasoning, one could argue that channel should heal +50%, but the wording clearly states "damage".
However, it also makes sense that damage to a swarm represents the killing of individuals within the swarm. Thus healing should have no effect whatsoever.
You could even rule that some are killed and some are badly hurt and out of the swarm, thus the +50% effect and the can't heal dead effect cancel out and you get back to RAW....
I'm not hung up on any of these being right or wrong, but I am curious as to any existing ruling or clarification.
Thanks
Nefreet
|
A swarm is a collection of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures that acts as a single creature. A swarm has the characteristics of its type, except as noted here. A swarm has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. A swarm makes saving throws as a single creature.
*snip*
A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.
So, it looks to me like the +50% damage from area effects would not translate into +50% healing from a channel, but a regular channel should heal a swarm just fine.
This little tidbit also suggests a swarm is capable of being healed:
A swarm rendered unconscious by means of nonlethal damage becomes disorganized and dispersed, and does not reform until its hit points exceed its nonlethal damage.
| BryonD |
I also prefer the "they are dead" answer.
I agree that a strict RAW is a regular channel would heal them fine, but I think that isn't really logical or consistent with the other rules for swarms. I'd guess it is simply because it is one of those corner cases and you can't write up everything. (which I'm perfectly fine with as an answer)
I'm not convinced that the non-lethal answer helps here. If a swarm is taken out with some portion of NL damage, then clearly some portion of the "out of action" critters are distinctly NOT dead, and thus obviously should be subject to healing. (though note that most any healing spell would be useless because of the individual targeting) As with anything else in PF, 1 HP is as good as full HP. So a seriously "wounded" swarm with 1 HP is still a fully functional swarm. If that swarm also had some NL damage, enough critters are dead AND/OR unconscious that the swarm is out. If somehow (such as channel) you heal that swarm, the dead ones would stay dead, but the NL would go away as normal and the swarm would be back to a wounded but fully functional swarm.
Nefreet
|
It's abstract reality. I think the rules in place now are fine and easily interpreted given the framework that characters run by.
A swarm of undead rats is being controlled by the enemy necromancer.
A cleric channels positive energy to harm the swarm, dealing +50% damage.
The necromancer channels negative energy to heal what's left, but the "+50%" that were damaged do not recover.
And then the barbarian with a swarmbane clasp cleaves into both.
End of encounter.
| BryonD |
Well, lets run your positive then negative through 3 different scenarios.
1st - The necromancer has a 20 HP Large skeleton
2nd - He has 5 4-HP skeletons.
3rd - He has a 20 HP swarm of undead rats
I channel for 10 positive and then the necromancer channels for 10 negative.
In the first case it clearly works as you describe(with the exception of the +50% since no swarm). The two channels off-set each other.
In the second case all 5 skeletons are destroyed. The necromancer channels negative energy, perhaps hurting me, but the destroyed skeletons remain destroyed skeletons, fully oblivious to the negative energy passing through their formerly animated bones. As far as "healing" goes, the channel was wasted.
In the third case 15 points of damage are applied to the swarm (assume save failed). When enough undead rats are destroyed (20 HP worth in this case) the swarm is sufficiently harmed to dissipate. I've destroyed 3/4 of that number. Presumptively the rest were shielded from the positive energy by the crumbling bones of the ones too close to the outside of the swarm. Now the necromancer channels negative. What is there to heal? It is just like the skeletons. The 15 HP that were destroyed can't be healed any more than the skeletons would.