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Okay, so I'm planning out a maneuver-based alchemist/fighter, and I'm having some trouble understanding how ye old Tentacle discovery will interact with the Quick maneuver feats and Two-Weapon Fighting.
On your turn, you can perform a single [whichever] combat maneuver in place of one of your melee attacks. You must choose the melee attack with the highest base attack bonus to make the [maneuver].
Now, my first question is, when using these feats in combination with Two-Weapon Fighting (assume daggers are the weapons being used), would the penalty from the attack being replaced apply to the quick maneuver?
Carrying on, the Tentacle discovery, per loads and loads of arguments on the subject, can only be used to attack by replacing an existing attack. So, say that the character in question is full-attacking with a +5 BAB (feat prereqs being ignored for simplicity). He has two attacks, primary and off-hand, at +3/+3. The primary attack is replaced by a Quick maneuver, as per that feat, leaving him with the off-hand attack. Now, he wants to replace that attack with the tentacle.
Is the tentacle attack:
a) an off-hand attack, thus taking the TWF penalty, as per the attack it replaced?
b) a primary natural attack, since no weapon has actually been used thus far?
c) a secondary natural attack, since there was a weapon attack preceding, even though it got replaced?
d) not possible, due to some rule I missed or misread?
Hello, the TWF penalty applies to ALL attack rolls that turn, of which combat maneuvers are included. Using a tentacle instead of an arm for a maneuver doesn't really benefit or matter...other than flavor, so no additional penalty or bonus.
If, as part of TWF, you actually make an attack action, where you're just trying to strike something with your tentacle and then with a held weapon in a different hand, then the tentacle becomes a secondary natural attack, with a -5 attack penalty.
I'm curious, would option A be at all advantageous for you over just another dagger attack? I don't see anything particularly significant.
The main factor is that the alchemist's tentacle comes with the grab ability, allowing a free-action grapple with +4 bonus if it connects. The thought I have is to start off with a dirty trick maneuver to inflict either blinded or entangled, then follow up with the tentacle attack and subsequent grapple, with the enemy suffering CMD or CMB penalties, respectively.
Hello, the TWF penalty applies to ALL attack rolls that turn, of which combat maneuvers are included. Using a tentacle instead of an arm for a maneuver doesn't really benefit or matter...other than flavor, so no additional penalty or bonus.
If, as part of TWF, you actually make an attack action, where you're just trying to strike something with your tentacle and then with a held weapon in a different hand, then the tentacle becomes a secondary natural attack, with a -5 attack penalty.
I think you may have misunderstood me. The tentacle isn't being used for the initial maneuver; that one's being made just like any regular fighter would. The tentacle replaces the off-hand attack, but with the primary attack also replaced by a weaponless maneuver, no held weapon is actually used during the attack sequence, thus my confusion over how the tentacle attack would be typed.