Divination Wizard + Lookout

[shiiktan]

My party is currently drawing up characters for a new campaign. They are planning a rather cheesy team concept so I wanted to make sure if it's legit.

Divination Wizard (always gets to act in surprise round)
Archer Paladin
Archer Inquisitor
Zen Archer

EVERYONE takes the Lookout feat.

Does this mean they all get to act in a surprise round in every combat?

[Nearyn]

If everyone in the party is adjacent to(read: in a square next to) the diviner wizard whenever the surprise-round begins, then yes, they all get to act in it.

However, with surprise rounds being what they are, unless your PCs cling to eachother and nobody moves more than 5 ft away from the wizard at all times, then you should be able to surprise the individual members every now and again :)

-Nearyn

[Funky Badger]

Nearyn wrote:

If everyone in the party is adjacent to(read: in a square next to) the diviner wizard whenever the surprise-round begins, then yes, they all get to act in it.

However, with surprise rounds being what they are, unless your PCs cling to eachother and nobody moves more than 5 ft away from the wizard at all times, then you should be able to surprise the individual members every now and again :)

-Nearyn

Obvious way round this is for half the party to be small (gnome of halfling) diviners and the rest to be barbarians, fashion some form of carrying harness for the wizards then hey presto! All Seeing Rucksacks!

[Nearyn]

Funky Badger wrote:

Nearyn wrote:

If everyone in the party is adjacent to(read: in a square next to) the diviner wizard whenever the surprise-round begins, then yes, they all get to act in it.

However, with surprise rounds being what they are, unless your PCs cling to eachother and nobody moves more than 5 ft away from the wizard at all times, then you should be able to surprise the individual members every now and again :)

-Nearyn

Obvious way round this is for half the party to be small (gnome of halfling) diviners and the rest to be barbarians, fashion some form of carrying harness for the wizards then hey presto! All Seeing Rucksacks!

I'm taking the all-seeing rucksack and using it as an actual item in my campaigns :D

-Nearyn

[Happler]

Nearyn wrote:

If everyone in the party is adjacent to(read: in a square next to) the diviner wizard whenever the surprise-round begins, then yes, they all get to act in it.

However, with surprise rounds being what they are, unless your PCs cling to eachother and nobody moves more than 5 ft away from the wizard at all times, then you should be able to surprise the individual members every now and again :)

-Nearyn

This would make area effect spells ugly against the party.. :)

[Mirrel the Marvelous]

Yes, but good luck in getting off that AoE before they act.

[Happler]

Mirrel the Marvelous wrote:

Yes, but good luck in getting off that AoE before they act.

Is that not what invisibility is for? They can act, but can they see/target? Being able to act in the surprise round does not mean much if they have no readily available target..

[shiiktan]

That invisible-surprise-fireball won't be near as useful if they all decide to scatter as their opening action.

And let's not forget that Lookout means if they could normally act in the surprise round, some of them will be getting full-round actions at the outset.

[Mirrel the Marvelous]

Plus, the party will have access to Illusion magic's Bane. A Diviner!

[Funky Badger]

Nearyn wrote:

Funky Badger wrote:

Nearyn wrote:

If everyone in the party is adjacent to(read: in a square next to) the diviner wizard whenever the surprise-round begins, then yes, they all get to act in it.

However, with surprise rounds being what they are, unless your PCs cling to eachother and nobody moves more than 5 ft away from the wizard at all times, then you should be able to surprise the individual members every now and again :)

-Nearyn

Obvious way round this is for half the party to be small (gnome of halfling) diviners and the rest to be barbarians, fashion some form of carrying harness for the wizards then hey presto! All Seeing Rucksacks!

I'm taking the all-seeing rucksack and using it as an actual item in my campaigns :D

-Nearyn

Or, you could invert it and have a hulking diviner carrying a tiny zen-archer in a napsack.

[Happler]

While they get to act in the surprise round, nothing states that they automatically go before the ambush (etc) (at least until the wizard is level 20, but at that time, many of the rules break down oddly). They still have to roll initiative, and are still considered flat-footed until they act. They just get the chance to act in the surprise round.

While this will give them the chance to act during surprise, it will not work 100% of the time (if they roll badly on init, and the enemy rolls well for example), and it cost everyone in the group a feat slot (which can be tough for some classes/builds). I do not think that it is overpowered.