|
Quick Draw with quickdraw shield
Combat Expertise
Improved Feint
Improved Trip
Power Attack
Felling Smash
Cornugon Smash
+ greatsword
combat round goes:
1) free action to put away shield
2) move action to feint
3) standard action to power-attack, combat expertise and vital strike
4) swift action to trip (if hit)
5) free action to demoralize (if hit)
6) free action to draw shield
Richard
The free action used to stow your shield and the free action used to draw it again may conflict. RAW, you can use any number of free actions a turn subject to DM discretion. In other words, if you seem to be abusing the unlimited free actions rule he can veto it. In my game he accepted my suggestion that you can either draw or stow your QD shield as a free action but not both.
My friends felt I was abusing it to use a 2H weapon and shield, but our houseruled limitation leaves it workable and fair. Another limitation is that your 2H weapon generally can't be used on AoO between turns if you have your shield up and your shield can't help when you provoke an AoO.
The other actions appear fine to me, though I haven't looked them up.
RAW, it works. RAI, I would extend the bucklers limitation that if you attack with that hand you cannot use the quickdraw shield for that round.
- Gauss
RAW, it works. RAI, I would extend the bucklers limitation that if you attack with that hand you cannot use the quickdraw shield for that round.
- Gauss
I would argue that that defeats the purpose of the quickdraw shield. A buckler is also smaller and can't be used to defend for the round if you attack with it. This ruling is unique to the buckler due to it's decreased size or inherent design. Nothing in the quickdraw shield description ever says that you can't fire the bow or swing with the 2H sword you were already wielding, hold it in one hand and quickdraw your QD shield to defend. You won't even be able to make an AoO if you do this unless you drop your weapon entirely and quickdraw a 1H weapon at the same time as your shield. Why impose even further penalties? Dropping your main weapon or forfeiting your ability to make AoO's is already bad enough.
I disagree with your interpretation that the ruling is due to decreased size or inherent design. It is more likely that it is due to 'you used that hand already'.
In general if you use a hand for something you probably cannot use it for something else.
Since you have already used the hand to attack the intent seems to be that you forgo it's ability to do something else.
- Gauss
No, I do not believe that two-weapon thrower builds are impossible. I believe though that if you are using a hand to attack you are not also using it to defend with a shield (barring specific exceptions such as the Shield Bash feat tree).
This has nothing to do with the FAQ ruling which I know you disagree with (and that I wont be dragged into but I also don't agree with).
I had this same ruling BEFORE that FAQ (that you cannot use a shield in the same round that you wield a weapon in that hand).
- Gauss
There may be people arguing that you do not get your shield bonus to AC if you do this because you used that hand to attack during this round (at least to me the FAQ on THW + Armor Spikes strongly suggests that this may be RAI)
Do you have the quote or link for this? Armor spikes don't grant a shield bonus to AC.
I disagree with your interpretation that the ruling is due to decreased size or inherent design. It is more likely that it is due to 'you used that hand already'.
In general if you use a hand for something you probably cannot use it for something else.
Since you have already used the hand to attack the intent seems to be that you forgo it's ability to do something else.
- Gauss
You can use your hands as much as you want, it doesn't restrict the actions you do with them later except in the specific case of a buckler or a shield bash. The thing about the buckler is that it straps to your forearm but when you attack with that arm or cast a spell the thing awkwardly twists out of position on your forearm. It's still strapped to you when you attack with it (like any shield bash) It takes about a round to readjust your buckler properly.
Donning a shield you are directly strapping the shield to yourself, without having awkwardly twisted the thing beforehand. Hence the uniqueness of the buckler and the usability of shields after attacking with the same arm prior to donning the shield.
You could even do this before with a regular shield as a move action (or a free action combined with a move action with BAB +1).
Standard action: 2H weapon attack
No action: let go of 2H weapon with 1 hand and just hold it
Move action: draw your shield knowing that you now need it.
If you couldn't do this they would have specified this in the same chapter as the following
Ready or Drop a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or drop a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.
Notice the shield just outright grants a shield bonus to AC when you strap it on.
When using a specific shield for a shield bash you lose its AC bonus until next turn. They refer to the specific shield's AC bonus instead of to 'your shield bonus to AC'.
If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next turn. An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
This also means that there is nothing preventing you from
Standard action: Shield bash (off hand or 2H even)Move action combined with free action: Drop shield #1 (free, need a BAB of +1), Don shield #2 (move)
I would even argue that you could unstrap, readjust then strap your shield on again to regain it's usage for the turn at the cost of a move action with a free action as explained above. If you take off the straps you aren't wielding it anymore, you might consider that it ceases to become 'your shield' in the short period of time it isn't being wielded. The real problem with that is that you haven't technically 'dropped' your shield.
RathJinx, you appear to be glossing over the fact that I already said that via RAW this is allowed. I then stated that it was my BELIEF that it was not allowed by RAI. So, what was your point? To agree with me on the RAW? Ok, you agree with me on the RAW. Well done.
So back to RAI, I believe that it is not the intent that you can use the same hand to both attack and then benefit from the AC of the shield on that hand unless you have special abilities that state you do. Putting the shield on after the attack seems to me to be sidestepping the intent, not following it.
Now, if you want to argue with my belief, you are welcome to do so but it is like arguing with the belief of a divinity. Kinda hard to prove or disprove. :P
- Gauss
RathJinx, you appear to be glossing over the fact that I already said that via RAW this is allowed. I stated that it was my BELIEF that it was not allowed by RAI. So, what was your point? To agree with me on the RAW? Ok, you agree with me on the RAW. Well done.
So back to RAI, I believe that it is not the intent that you can use the same hand to both attack and then benefit from the AC of the shield on that hand unless you have special abilities that state you do.
- Gauss
If you couldn't do this they would have specified this in the same chapter as the following
I addressed the RAI as well, though not nearly in as much detail.
Also there is the fact that you can do this with a regular shield and 2H weapon just by making a standard action attack, then dropping it and using a move action to don your shield. This potentiality as taken entirely from the combat section supports RAI for using your off-hand weapon then donning a shield and gaining its shield bonus.
Perhaps your RAI argument got lost in your RAW arguement.
In any case:
Buckler: Cannot *usually* be used to shield bash. But if you use it to spellcast or to make a weapon attack you cannot benefit from the AC bonus.
Light Shield: Can be used to shield bash, but if you do so you lose the AC bonus. Cannot cast or make a non-shield weapon attack with that hand.
Now, you create a situation where you attack with a weapon, use quickdraw to put away the weapon, equip the shield. Do you get the AC bonus? I say no, others (obviously yourself included) say yes. The RAW tends to support you but I believe the intent (based on the Buckler AND Light Shield where if you make an attack with a shield hand you do not get an AC bonus) is that it is no.
Is it extending the concept from those items to the Quickdraw shield? Yes. Is it a house rule or at least a GM ruling? Yes.
As I said right from the beginning. RAW it is allowed. I proposed a reasonable RAI interpretation but as with most interpretations it is not the only one.
- Gauss