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This is a question raised by a player of mine. I'll quote precisely what they said:
Player wrote:
I spent all my morning today reading through mount and travel stuff, everything from exotic mounts to walking speed conversions from base speed, and I've stumbled across an oddity: Mount Movement Encumberance vs Str Weight encumbrance is inconsistent when it comes to horses.
Heavy horses are listed with a 20 Str Score in the Bestiary which should give them the capacity to carry up to 400 lbs as a light load (adjusted appropriately for a Large Quadrupedal animal), however in the Mounts/Vehicles Table of the Movement section on PFSRD they are given a base speed penalty (considered encumbered) by a load at 230 lbs, which translates to a medium load for a 16 Str Score on the carrying capacity page.
Light horses are similarly undercut on the movement page, given what is effectively a Str Score of 14 (once properly adjusted) when they are listed with a 16 Str Score in the Bestiary.
Furthermore on the same table, Ponies are considered encumbered at 150 lbs and can carry a max of 450 lbs, which doesn't sync up with Any of a Pony's stats. Given that a regular pony's Str Score is 13, and that it is a Medium Quadrupedal animal, its maximum light load would be 75 lbs or less, meaning that it would be considered encumbered if it were carrying a load 76 lbs and up, and could not carry more than 225 lbs. Significantly less than the Movement table.
However ponies, as described in their ecology, have a custom carrying capacity, separate from their strength, with a maximum light load listed at 100 lbs and a maximum total load at 300 lbs... Which is still significantly lower from the movement table listing.
Oddly enough however, the encumbrance and max loads listed for Riding Dogs on the movement table perfectly match the carrying capacity of a Medium Quadrupedal animal with the riding dog's listed Str Score of 15.
I could literally go on for paragraphs about the information I've pulled out of this discrepancy, and the potential logic behind obeying either side of this discrepancy, and I'm half way to building my own mechanic to solve this discrepancy. But, for briefness' sake --and considering that I may very well have missed a rule somewhere-- my questions are: Which set of carrying capacities apply? Am I simply missing a rule? If I am missing a rule, does it apply to other types of mounts? And if I'm not missing a rule, and both carrying capacities apply, how is the contradiction dealt with?
To which I responded by saying that at first I thought that the inconsistency was due to Pathfinder grandfathering in some more stuff from 3.5 without making proper adjustments based on new rules. Horses in Pathfinder are handled differently than 3.5 after-all.
Ultimately, I was proven wrong. Next, I looked into the Advanced Simple Template as a possibility since it would explain the 4 strength discrepancy in the Heavy Horse. Though it explained nothing with the other mounts. Ultimately, I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy.
With that said, I think it would be best to go with the ACTUAL carrying capacity of the creature (that way special mounts, summoned augmented mounts, and the like are accounted for). So 400 lbs for the Heavy Horse.
However, I would like to ask the Paizo community for thoughts or to point out something the two of us have obviously missed.
I'll word it slightly less... Wordy:
The carrying capacities for mounts on the Overland Speed table do not match the strength scores in the beastiary for those mounts.
Just going to post here to bump this since I was the player he was quoting, and I just got around to making an account here.
The original quote had lots of PFRSD links, but I'll just post the relevant ones here.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/movement#Table-Movement-and-D istance
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity
and
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/horse
Everything up there was done with pretty simple math and references the data on those three pages.
Hope someone bites now. lol
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I am not sure, but isn't there something about the beast being a quadroped vs humaniod? That may be the difference, though I wouldn't know where to quote rules on that.
thaX wrote: I am not sure, but isn't there something about the beast being a quadroped vs humaniod? That may be the difference, though I wouldn't know where to quote rules on that. It's on the Carrying capacity page, I'll pull a quote for ease of access.
Quote: Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×3/4, Tiny ×1/2, Diminutive ×1/4, Fine ×1/8.
Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature's Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
thaX wrote: Thank you.
No, thank you, this thread needed a bump since I'm still confused about it.
I'm sorry I can't help much here (I'm mainly posting to bump the thread in hops that it gets answered) though a possible explanation is that the stats used come from a different place (though where I'm not sure). The riding dog for example, does work (off by 2 but close enough) is one uses bestiary page (str. 15) and not the Druid page (str. 13). So perhaps there's another source that we've missed or (more likely) there's just an odd error and in that case, use the X3 carry capacity since it's better.
I think my GM and I have figured out why there's a difference in the two values (the normal one given based on strength and the ones in the mounts and vehicles table). The reason may be because the one in the mounts and vehicles shows values for distance based travel and so it's taking into account fatigue of the horse by lowering it's effective strength to compensate. With the dog, it could have to do with species and as for the pony...I'm not sure, this isn't a perfect answer but it was the best one we could come up with.
I'm assuming no one answered cause no one knows? Or doesn't anyone else care?
I would like to know...
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