Hey guys, I've got a character concept I'm building around and would like some perspective on it. My goal is to make a viable support character with the possibility of going MT. The race would be Aasimar (Musetouched) with her first two level being Oracle and her third being vanilla Bard. The curse would be clouded vision and her mystery would be healing. What do you think would be a balanced build going into later levels? Would it be worth dropping into MT or should I stick to just the two? Oracle would be the primary class. Forgive the lack of cohesion in this post as I am very sleepy.
MT is generally a pretty weak option. As an Oracle it won't advance your curse and you won't pick up revelations, so I'd honestly say the class is more synergistic with Cleric and Wizard, as you lose fewer class features as a result of MT. In any case, if you mutliclass, see if your GM will let you join a spellcasting guild from Inner Sea Magic. Once you get enough Fame points, you get +3 caster level in one class and +1 in another, and that includes spells per day and spells known. Musetouched does grant you early entry into MT so you could get into it as early as level 4, if you decide to go that route, or level 5 if you stick with Bard / Oracle. Glitterdust SLA only fulfills half of the arcane / divine requirement for MT. I'll check back on this thread later tonight, I hope your character construction goes well!!
MT is generally a pretty weak option. As an Oracle it won't advance your curse and you won't pick up revelations, so I'd honestly say the class is more synergistic with Cleric and Wizard, as you lose fewer class features as a result of MT. In any case, if you mutliclass, see if your GM will let you join a spellcasting guild from Inner Sea Magic. Once you get enough Fame points, you get +3 caster level in one class and +1 in another, and that includes spells per day and spells known. Musetouched does grant you early entry into MT so you could get into it as early as level 4, if you decide to go that route, or level 5 if you stick with Bard / Oracle. Glitterdust SLA only fulfills half of the arcane / divine requirement for MT. I'll check back on this thread later tonight, I hope your character construction goes well!!
How does Muse-Touched grant you early access to Mystic Theurge?
Hey guys, I've got a character concept I'm building around and would like some perspective on it. My goal is to make a viable support character with the possibility of going MT. The race would be Aasimar (Musetouched) with her first two level being Oracle and her third being vanilla Bard. The curse would be clouded vision and her mystery would be healing. What do you think would be a balanced build going into later levels? Would it be worth dropping into MT or should I stick to just the two? Oracle would be the primary class. Forgive the lack of cohesion in this post as I am very sleepy.What do you want from the character? Forget the mechanics at first, and just answer questions like what the character will do in battle and out of battle... what do they 'bring to the table' for the party?
In general MT is a bad choice.. and a horrid choice for classes that get significant abilities beyond casting.
Depending on what you want I can give you off the top of my head a Oracle1/BardX human support-based build, but it might not fit your vision depending how you value each of the facets you've mentioned in your initial post.
-James
I was REALLY sleepy when I posted this morning...too much Doctor Who (Although I don't believe there is such a thing). Digressing, I want to build a buff/healbot. She is completely a support character. I want Oracle to be her primary class as there are some bard abilities gained that would find little use. The songhealer Archetype would be my best bet for what I'm going for. My goal isn't to min-max, but to find a way to make it fit my concept and still be useful.
I'm playing a Bard right now and am 6th level. I specialize in Whip, battlefield control and Skill Monkey. At this point, with Heroism and Bardic performance up, I can actually hold my own in combat (though I'm still a bit squishy)
I've never played an Oracle so can't speak to that. But I have found that I end up using Bard abilities that I didn't think I would. I still haven't used the well-versed ability, but other than that just about everything else.
If you are human, instead of taking the extra skill pt each level you can gain a new spell known (as long as it's lower than the highest level you can cast). I've found this to be REALLY useful bc I know a lot of spells and I cast spontaneously. You want heal? Learn Cure Light / Cure Mod... you'll still have 4 other spells known by 4th level (and 3 other every level until then... not to mention knowing 9 lvl 0 spells by 3rd)
Also, there is a trait called "Magical Liniage"... reduces the lvl increase of metamagic feats by 1... your heal spells just got better (via metamagic feats)
Of course Buffs are buffs... which the Bard is great at
I want to build a buff/healbot. She is completely a support character. I want Oracle to be her primary class as there are some bard abilities gained that would find little use. The songhealer Archetype would be my best bet for what I'm going for. My goal isn't to min-max, but to find a way to make it fit my concept and still be useful.What is the concept beyond 'buff/healbot'?
What Bard abilities in specific are you desiring overmuch here?
-James
It's mostly from a Roleplaying aspect. Abilities like versatile performance and well versed would be wasted along with most of the knowledge skills. When she came of age and her celestial heritage blossomed, instead of "revering" her, her father sold her as a slave to an evil lord who used her to hold his cup and sing for him...among other things. Her bardic performances are a must and achieving those at least up to level 5 or 7 might be as far as I need to go. I was thinking the class ratio would be best at 2 oracle levels for every bard level. I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at James. Are you speaking of feat/skill selection? Spell Selection? I've only planned those out to level 3 usually and go organically from there.
MT is generally a pretty weak option. As an Oracle it won't advance your curse and you won't pick up revelations, so I'd honestly say the class is more synergistic with Cleric and Wizard, as you lose fewer class features as a result of MT. In any case, if you mutliclass, see if your GM will let you join a spellcasting guild from Inner Sea Magic. Once you get enough Fame points, you get +3 caster level in one class and +1 in another, and that includes spells per day and spells known. Musetouched does grant you early entry into MT so you could get into it as early as level 4, if you decide to go that route, or level 5 if you stick with Bard / Oracle. Glitterdust SLA only fulfills half of the arcane / divine requirement for MT. I'll check back on this thread later tonight, I hope your character construction goes well!!How does Muse-Touched grant you early access to Mystic Theurge?
Having Glitterdust as a spell-like ability (which Musetouched aasimar replaces the general aasimar's daylight ability with) fulfills the "second level arcane spell" requirement for MT. This was either clarified or changed in an official Paizo FAQ last month. The character would still need to have 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (arcana) as well as the ability to cast a 2nd level divine spell, though.
@Luna Silvertear : flavorwise, how about skipping the oracle levels and going with the Songhealer archetype?
@Luna Silvertear : flavorwise, how about skipping the oracle levels and going with the Songhealer archetype?
I had considered thst, but part of my character concept is that she's blind (clouded vision) and is pretty much like a white mage from final fantasy. My first revelation would have to be channel energy. I usually play Arcane casters, so I'm trying to vary it up a bit and the MT always gets a bad wrap, so I'm trying to pull it off, even if I don't actually take levels in the class. Loss to caster level will hurt a bit, but such a combo can still be useful, especially if she isn't the only Divine caster in the party.
I had considered thst, but part of my character concept is that she's blind (clouded vision) and is pretty much like a white mage from final fantasy. My first revelation would have to be channel energy. I usually play Arcane casters, so I'm trying to vary it up a bit and the MT always gets a bad wrap, so I'm trying to pull it off, even if I don't actually take levels in the class. Loss to caster level will hurt a bit, but such a combo can still be useful, especially if she isn't the only Divine caster in the party.
Well, I think in this case, if you wanted to bring the most use to your party, just being an oracle of life would be the route I'd pick.
If you're determined to pull it off, the loss to caster level would be my main concern, too. But second to that is that Bard performances scale with level. So that +1 inspire courage isn't really all that great at level 12. Looking at it, I think you either want 1 or 5 levels in Bard. 5 gets you to +2 inspire courage, which is, well, double +1. After that, it's diminishing returns. You'll be able to make up some caster levels (albeit for a semi-regular deduction of gold until you reach Guildmaster status) by joining a guild (if you go ahead with this character, I'd strongly, strongly suggest your GM approve you joining a guild for the +1 to one class and +3 to another in caster level AND spells / day and known). So maybe Bard 1 / Oracle 4 / Mystic Theurge 10 / Oracle 5 ? Apply your +3 to Bard and your +1 to Oracle and you don't miss any Oracle spells, besides revelation spells. Take Magical Knack (Bard) And your Bard spells will be cast at CL 15, which isn't really all that terrible. With a really good Cha you'll be able to get by, I think. Feats will be kind of tight, since you'll probably want to take Extra Revelation and possibly Lingering Performance. Discordant Voice will be a huge buff, too. So it's not like there aren't things even a single level of bard will get you. I'll take a stab at a build :
Race : Aasimar (Musetouched) - assuming 20 pt buy :
Str 14 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 18
Traits : Reactionary (actually fits RP wise here for once), Magical Knack (Bard)
1 Oracle (Life) - clouded vision curse, revelation Channel, feat Improved Initiative
2 Or - Mystery Spell (detect undead)
3 Bard (Arcane Duelist archetype if you want something semi useful for what will be a useless class feature in bardic knowledge) - Arcane Strike, Inspire Courage +1, other things that don't matter much, feat Lingering Performance
4 Or - revelation Spirit Boost
5 Or - mystery spell (lesser restoration), feat Extra Performance
6 Mystic Theurge
7 Mystic Theurge feat - Craft Wondrous Item
8 MT
9 MT feat - Enlarge Spell
10 MT
11 MT feat - Discordant Voice
12 MT
13 MT feat Quicken Spell
14 MT
15 MT feat
16 Or
17 Or feat
18 OR
19 Or feat
20 Or
Well, the only things I know I'd want for sure are Discordant Voice and Lingering Performance, and Improved Initiative. Anything else is negotiable really. I think I'd probably take feats to get an animal companion or something so I don't feel totally left out on offense, but really whatever will work. Crafting feats would be great if allowed for this character. I would take the aasimar favored class bonus at every oracle level, boosting either the Channel revelation (even though it scales badly even at full progression, at later levels it will be strictly out of combat heals. I took it early in this build so it will at least see some use and also because you said you wanted it at first) I think I'd apply the FCB to Spirit Boost. I kinda like the idea of overhealing providing a benefit. I could see Eldritch Heritage (arcane) being very useful for a familiar (could be RP'd as your character's "eyes"), metamagic adept and new arcana could be very, very useful, too.
Anyways those are just my thoughts on how to start. Cool character concept.
I love you, Nuclearsunburn, although our builds are a similar in an almost synchronized kind of way. The campaign began at level I actually was for a 20 point buy set up as your build does. I did end up using the arcane duelist archetype after working her backstory with another player (pally/Sorc eventual EK) whose character rescued her and vowed to be her protector. She carries a longsword but refuses to use it unless there is no other option. The other players (A rogue, a fighter, and a druid) absolutely love her and her backstory. The first two battles turned out quite well with the ROGUE hitting with his shortbow for an apparent +4 including the buffs from my Character (whose name is Evelyn Innocente). She's looking like she'll be a fun and wonderful character.
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Thought more about it today at work. Yeah, your character was thought about on a company clock! The more I think about it, the more I really love the idea of having a familiar for you. Mostly for the RP reasons, but, having a Lyrakien familiar would just fit so well.
Feats by level, familiar build:
1 - Improved Initiative
3 - Skill Focus : Knowledge (any, I suggest local)
5 - Eldritch Heritage (arcane : arcane bond : familiar. Take whatever you want for now)
7 - Lingering Performance
9 - Enlarge Spell
11 - Discordant Voice
13 - Improved Familiar (if you're Chaotic Good you can get the Lyriaken here. musical accompaniment for your singing!!)
15 - Quicken Spell
17 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (new arcana - adding two wizard spells to your list!)
19 - whatever Spell Penetration maybe?
I'll try to come up with an animal companion build later on tonight. I think it might be better, honestly. Do your animal friends get morale bonuses even? Another route we could explore would be a summoning focus (what is your alignment, anyways?) to get things to use those nifty buffs on. But it seems like your party is kind of big anyways, so maybe not. Until later!
Animal companion would be cool. A wolf would be awesome, but the Lyrakien is boss.