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Hi Guys, new to the board! This is an idea I had to play an Archer in Pathfinder Society. I didn't want to play the standard turret. Since it takes 9 sessions of staying alive to make it to lvl 4 in the Pathfinder Society, here is my idea up to lvl 4.
First, the Concept: I want a mobile, skilled, light/fast archer that was unique in the inevitable melee, and was suprisingly defense from back there in turret-land.
Solution: Human
Lvl 1 - Fighter/Lore warden 1 - Light Armor, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot
Lvl 2 - Sohei Monk 1 - Improved unarmed Strike (this is important)*, Deflect Arrows (bonus feat), no stunning fist but instead Sohei's ability to add 1/2 monk lvl to initiative, and can act in a suprise round, even if he saw nothing.
Lvl 3 - Sohei Monk 2 - Evasion! (nothing says suck it fireball better, usable in light armor), Dodge or Throw anything(Bonus Feat and now he's a real ranged weapons guy),and Two-Weapon Fighting (explained later)
Lvl 4 - Lore warden 2 - Combat reflexes (Bonus Feat), and either Improved Trip (for 2 attempts at tripping an advancing foe, if that's possible)or something else like Improved Initiative or Weapon Finesse.
So what's my plan?
My plan is to have the no-so-standard archer
With the following upgrades:
1. He can melee people who close without dropping or putting away his bow. Monk Unarmed Strike lets me add kicks to unarmed and lets me keep my bow in my hand.
2. The Sohei's ability to always act in a surprise round might be priceless for getting to range or moving to a strategic position.
3. Deflect Arrows - In a firefight, that's one free miss per round
4. Evasion! - In a firefight with mages, that's one way to last a little longer.
5. Throw anything for the consummate ranged professional
6. Two-weapon fighting - As a monk, you lose flurry when you don light armor, but I see nowhere that it stops the ability to unarmed strike with kicks - If this is not so, someone please correct me, as this is core to my vision of the character. Since I'm attacking with unarmed strikes I can now two-weapon fight with kicks, or with short swords.
7. Combat reflex, free leads to...
8. Improved trip - So advancing on me leads to 2 trip attempts per turn.
9. Skills - This character can be more than just a BAB fighter man and more like an adventurer. Lore warden adds two Int skills (Knowledge nature, ad-hoc ranger anyone?) Monk adds the other skills I like and think an adventuring archer should have like Acrobatics, Stealth, History, Religion, Sense Motive, and Diplomacy. I don't know if or how I'd level them all up, but they're there, which is way more than just survival and perception getting leveled.
Is this character possible?
The /pathfinderRPG/prd/states:
"Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes."
Can I take it to mean that I can have my bow in hand, and kick the crap out of someone who closes in melee?
It DOES say the a monk in light armor loses flurry, but it DOES NOT say anywhere that he loses the monks method of unarmed striking, i.e. kicks and punches. If so, this is what I'm concerned about.
So all in all, is this character possible? If so, any Ideas for a 20 point stat build?
I'm betting dex.
Is this character possible?
Looks possible to me. This archer has kinda fallen behind the other optimized archers, but if you're comfortable missing out on reliably dealing range damage for more defense, a little battlefield control, skill points, and better melee attacks then I suppose it's fine. I get the impression that in the attempt to do all that other stuff this character may miss out on being a competent archer though.
I just started a Zen Archer Monk the other night, so I can't say for certain, but it seems to do everything in that department well on its own.
So all in all, is this character possible? If so, any Ideas for a 20 point stat build?
Improved trip's prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise. So yeah... No dumping INT, which I guess you weren't going to do anyway as a Lore warden.
STR: 12 DEX: 20 CON: 12 INT: 13 WIS: 10 CHA: 7 Maybe? With the +2 going to DEX? You probably should have some STR bonus for composite bow damage, need the INT for trip, you kinda lose out on CON & WIS, which really sucks for a half monk, and CHA can get dumped. DEX doesn't need to be that high I guess.
STR: 12 DEX: 18 CON: 12 INT: 13 WIS: 14 CHA: 8, The figures can be swapped around.
It DOES say the a monk in light armor loses flurry, but it DOES NOT say anywhere that he loses the monks method of unarmed striking, i.e. kicks and punches. If so, this is what I'm concerned about.
Giving up flurry seems wasteful, but for me it seems like inventments in melee attacks seem wasteful for an archer. If you went ZAM you could flurry with your bow and that'd be better than rapid shot.
So you want a character who is an archer, but also has Two-Weapon Fighting, and combat maneuvers, and improvised weapons, and Combat Reflexes, and...
Sorry, but it seems like you're spreading yourself too thin. I think you'll probably end up as a subpar archer, with a lot of other tricks that don't make up the difference. I'd narrow the focus to only one or (maybe) two things besides archery.
What you've got there is a decent all-around fighter with some combat maneuvers, good ranged attacks, and good melee options. It's a playable character, but most people wouldn't call it an "archer".
At level 7, you have Combat Reflexes for free--do you mean Combat Expertise there? Combat Reflexes isn't a requirement for Improved Trip.
I think Throw Anything is probably a waste. Point Blank and Precise Shot apply to all ranged attacks, so you can pick up some chakrams for 1 gp each and do 1d8+Str with a 30 ft range. Use that as a backup if something happens to your bow. Using improvised thrown weapons is not as good as the various ranged weapons you'll have available.
I like the combo of archer and unarmed strike. I'm curious as to what made you pick the Sohei, though.
Just for fun take a closer look at the Zen Archer.
Like the Sohei, AC= Dex bonus + Wisdom bonus. So you can tank pretty well in nothing but a robe.
And at 3rd Level you would gain Point Blank Master, which would allow you to fire bow point blank, while threatened, and not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Meanwhile before 4th level, in addition to any other feats you'd get:
Perfect Strike (roll attack twice, take better)
Flurry of Blows (similar to rapid shot for free at first level)
Improved Unarmed Strike (don't drop bow, kick wo provoking)
Bonus feats at 1st, 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th
Weapon Focus at 2nd.
Fast Movement at 3rd
Maneuver Training at 3rd.
Also because a Zen Archer uses wisdom +dex for AC, and uses wisdom to target ranged attacks... Makes the character less dex dependent and less MAD. Wisdom becomes the only must have, and Str and Con are nice. Any other archer build will have 4 required stats.
I like it! Since you only get 12 level to play with I would go
Sohei's Monk 3 and Lorewarden 9
or
Sohei's Monk 4 and Lorewarden 8
BaB of +11 Fort+9 Reflex+6 Will+6
Skill point per level of 5+int with good total skill list
9 total bonus feats 6 base feats for level for total of 15.
You are rounded and help fill to roles in table make up as skill and light figther.
I want you to think about this though your bow is your main weapon. Not your feet. With that being said triping while a good board controll attack leaves the target prone.
Prone: The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.
Wich mean you are giveing youself a -4 to hit with your main attack your bow. Bad idea.
Try a Maneuver Master monk instead you will get keep stuning fist and then take Dirty trick chain. This way if the bad guys get close on you you stun them and dirty trick them. This give alot of options to board contol and debuff.
You could stun then blinded, dazzled, deafened, entangled, shaken, or sickened sicken them.
You will have full CMB for you level and no need to take two weapon fighting. When you ful attack in melee at level 12 with your kick you will be able to stun on first attack dirty trick you extra then take second- 5 then then your 3rd at -10.
Look at Pilums it take out shields. Also Alchemist's Fire, Tanglefoot Bag, and Holy Water(this all this tagets Touch AC with you near full BaB should hit most of the time). Most of these take Move action to get ride of the conditon that they inpose. So dose dity trick. So if they get both that mean for 1 full round the bad guy sit there and dose nothing but stop all your junk. Win for you. Or act and condition that you gave them. Still Win for you.
You will not be supper powered but balenced fun to play. I think this can work try even out your stat as well. So Damage on your bow gose up and your CMB and the Save on your Stuning fist.
Stay away form two weaponfighing unless your two weapon rapid shot thowing stuff to debuff multipull bad guys in one round... but realy I do not think this is needed.
Damage kills the bad guy. But Condition bone the bad guy and lets every one at the table pile in there fun. Also this build help alot of build that you will play with you can set table and let anyone at the table finsh them off.
Save or die Caster at the table you just +2 there save DC for round.
Power attacker, deadly aim, Two-weapon fighter, Rapidshotter etc..at the table you just gave them +4 to hit and what target DEX MOD to boot.
Sneak attacker this guy open go head and eat them for lunch.
You will still do good damage. There are ton of build that do damage. You will suck may GM into getting up in your face because you are bowman. That when you drop all bad stuff on them with Ditry stick and Stunnig fist. And this two feed each other if you stun them then there CMD go down by -2 and there DEX MOD or if you dirty stike them the and shaken, or sickened then your Stuning fist save DC just when up by +2.
Stat Wise
STR=DEX>WIS>INT=CON(MIN13)> CHA Dump
Your save are good due to class and stat save some money there and go after Stat items for STR WIS DEX in that order
I see MAD folk may talk about but when bounce two back forth Between Stun fist and dirty trick. You are realy give + 4 STAT bonus to the other attack. What you realy need to deside is CMD -10 greater than targets FORT save. So know wich attack to throw first.
On your end CMB+10 should be greater than Stunfist DC.
Why because your CMB for will go up by +1 per level while you stuning fist DC will go up 1/2. In addition to that fact ditrytrick will get +4 form feats and stuning fist will only get +1 due to trait. Also there is to spell and other stuff that will help raise you CMB and every littel that raise your Stuning fist. Wich why say Dirty Trick to set up the Stunning fist most of the times.
Thanks everybody for replying!
Thanks Uncertainty Lich, Apocalypso's dialogue has me taking a second look at Zen Archer.
Thanks for your Input Gwen, I did mean Combat Expertise, not at Lvl 7, but listed as the 7th reason why I am thinking of playing this build. I only listed feats up to lvl 4, which is think is 9 weekends of play, which for me is at least 3 months. I don't want to get to attached before he's hatched.
Thank you Apocalypso for the nod to Zen Archer. He looks Great and really does fill it out quite a bit and its great on mangling those MAD stats, but I miss one thing in that equation. Evasion. Zen Archers don't get it, and nothing tickles me pink like having a chance to dodge the group killing fireball. He's a sure bet and I might wind up making one one day, they seem killer.
Thank You Tom S 820, for getting what I'm saying. What I'd like to play is a versatile character that can put out respectable damage and help on more that one front. I don't need to be "captain-kill-it-wit-mah-boe", I wanted some fun versatility to enjoy playing the game and having options, not just sitting there waiting for the initiative to be rolled all the time.
I also get what your saying about focusing and the maneuver master, and that is indeed dirty, those tricks, I mean. I like it and may integrate it. All I would lose is the Sohei's ability to act in a suprise round even if perception fails, which I do like, but tripping people for free and putting sand in their eyes too? Priceless.
*semi-spoiler alert if you play PFS*
For instance, right now I'm playing a Lvl1 Magus in PFS. HE is not optimized, no dervish dance, no archetypes, etc.
Just a longsword,scimitar,studded leather armor, color spray, and grease. No not shocking grap, No not 2x shocking grasp.
This past weekend we did the adventure recovering a locket from a vault in the sewers, and my character called out the otyugh, talked him down from his "false threatening" and went and got him 25gp worth of food and the other characters followed suit, then later when we got ambushed by another team in the sewer. The healer was trapped on the bad end of a greataxe, almost died in one hit, and I cast grease and made the attacker drop his axe and rely on his dagger. The GM later let me know that move saved the healer. Later on, 3 of 4 of us were down in the boss fight due to sleep and the healer saved me by repeatedly bringing my back to 0 hp, only to get sleep cast on him again, this happened about 3 times. Each time I would wake, i would rouse the mage, then fall unconsious,the mage would rouse the cleric, the cleric would channel heal, roll, low, and bring me back to 0 HP, then the boss would cast sleep again on its turn... It was a fun game and I expected to die, but I enjoyed playing my character for more than the "mini-boom-cannon" that Magus are typically know to be. Next lvl spell? Glitterdust.
I haven't seen a group killing fireball since 2nd edition. Evasion is nice but honestly not needed. Your monk is rarely going to fail a reflex save, and half damage of a 10d6 which is the largest fireball you can expect in society is hardly going to kill you (35 damage halved isn't enough to kill a 3rd level character...).