Recently my party was preparing to ambush an evil-doer, an evil female cleric. We talked with her in the corner of a large room, but then she sense motived like a boss & ran down some stairs immediately. Naturally there was a huge locked & barred from the other side door in the way to waste our time.
Before she ran, I had stated I had readied an action to attack her if she did run. But another player stated that no one can ready an action outside of combat. Is this true? So far as I can tell, this is true, since readying an action is under special initiative actions. However... In that case I would like advice as well.
Does that mean that no matter what, an enemy will get a surprise round to do whatever? At least when RPing. Even if the entire party surrounds an enemy, and expects the enemy to run, we can't stop the creature? This feels wrong, tho if it's correct I will accept it. Still be bitter of course. But as I understand it there's no reason to try and bluff people, when simply walking up & attacking all together at once will grant the entire party a surprise round. Why bother trying to RP something like leading the enemy into a private room, if just attacking from the start would have been much more effective?
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Unfortunately you can't ready before inititive is rolled. What you're describing is basically an ambush and like a PC an NPC should get either a Perception check or Sense Motive check to become aware of the ruse. If successful the GM should ask for initiative rolls. If the NPC beats your rolls she could certainly run away. Its good to have Combat Reflexes for just such events!
Walking up and attacking won't give a surprise round either. If you're plainly visibile to an enemy and you walk up, draw weapons, and attack it all comes down to the initiative roll to determine who reacts the fastest.
--Vrocket Launcher Tag
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Readying action out of combat (meaning before initiative is rolled) isn't really possible. The whole point is "when the initiative is rolled". Instead of rolling initiative always, GM might simply allow you to ready action as if it was rolled.
In your case, I would grant you readied actions with a Sleight of Hand check or something since it would be obvious that your character is holding his hand on sword, on component pouch or anything else. Of course this is only my opinion.
P.S. You can almost always stop a creature unless your GM is planning a plot hook.
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I completely disagree with the conclusions I have seen here. The situation you describe, where one party has a weapon readied on another party is common, happens all the time in real life, and is a valid choice for the game. An enforcement officer holding a weapon on a criminal has readied an attack action, probably with the trigger "He does something suspicious". This is definitely no ambush as the NPC is completely aware of the situation and the consequences. Everyone else can roll initiative, but essentially the character who readied the action has been in combat rounds for some time just waiting for trouble.
Final caveat:
I do not believe in magic cut scenes where certain individuals are immune to players behaving intelligently or irrationally. "You cannot do that, the NPC is still talking!" has always sounded like a terrible argument to me.
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I completely disagree with the conclusions I have seen here. The situation you describe, where one party has a weapon readied on another party is common, happens all the time in real life, and is a valid choice for the game. An enforcement officer holding a weapon on a criminal has readied an attack action, probably with the trigger "He does something suspicious". This is definitely no ambush as the NPC is completely aware of the situation and the consequences. Everyone else can roll initiative, but essentially the character who readied the action has been in combat rounds for some time just waiting for trouble.
Final caveat:
I do not believe in magic cut scenes where certain individuals are immune to players behaving intelligently or irrationally. "You cannot do that, the NPC is still talking!" has always sounded like a terrible argument to me.
At best the PCs would gain a surprise round on the NPC if the NPC doesn't realize somethings going down. PCs get those Perception or Sense Motive checks before combat and so should an NPC.
As to the NPC is still talking... the GM calls for when initiative is rolled, not the PCs. And combat only starts once initiative is rolled.
--School of Hard Vrocks
I would have handled this differently.
Speaking is a free action that doesn't require rounds, but readying an action does.
Surprise rounds only happen when one side is unaware of the other side entirely or, at best, when one side completely does not expect hostility. An adventuring party in a dungeon encountering and speaking with someone else in that dungeon does not qualify - both sides are aware of the other (or they wouldn't be conversing) and both sides expect trouble. No surprise round.
The instant anybody on either side does ANYTHING that requires rounds, that's when initiative is rolled. If the fighter had said "I shoot this cleric with the bow I am holding in my hand" what would the GM do? He would say "Roll for initiative". If the wizard said "I cast magic missile at this cleric" what would the GM do? He would say "Roll for initiative".
So when the OP said "I ready an action to shoot this cleric if she runs", what should the GM do? He should say "Roll for initiative."
That's what I would have done.
Then I would resolve the actions in order. If the cleric won the roll, maybe she would still talk, so that the OP could ready on his turn. Or maybe she would run, but in this case, she clearly decided to run BEFORE the OP decided to ready his action.
That's why we have initiative rolls, so that we can resolve these kinds of things in order, with some randomness, but generally favoring the fastest people and/or those with the best training (Improved Initiative for one example).
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There's a bit of variation in how readied actions are handled out of combat. I think DM_Blake's take is a good one, and I'd like to emphasize this point:
Surprise rounds only happen when one side is unaware of the other side entirely or, at best, when one side completely does not expect hostility. An adventuring party in a dungeon encountering and speaking with someone else in that dungeon does not qualify - both sides are aware of the other (or they wouldn't be conversing) and both sides expect trouble. No surprise round.
OP wrote:
Does that mean that no matter what, an enemy will get a surprise round to do whatever? At least when RPing. Even if the entire party surrounds an enemy, and expects the enemy to run, we can't stop the creature? This feels wrong, tho if it's correct I will accept it.
That is wrong. If she made her Sense Motive, she's aware of you as enemies, but you're also aware of her as an enemy, so she definitely doesn't get a surprise round in which to run without any chance of stopping her. You get a chance to beat her on initiative.
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At best the PCs would gain a surprise round on the NPC if the NPC doesn't realize somethings going down. PCs get those Perception or Sense Motive checks before combat and so should an NPC.
There is no surprise. Everybody is aware bad things are on the list of stuff that is going to happen. If someone is using bluff, sleight of hand or some other subterfuge, sure, but a readied attack is pretty self-evident. I agree with DM_Blake but did not state it as explicitly in my post. Roll initiatives, or a least provide that opportunity.
As to the NPC is still talking... the GM calls for when initiative is rolled, not the PCs. And combat only starts once initiative is rolled.
--School of Hard Vrocks
If the GM tells me I cannot roll for initiative because I have to listen to an NPC monologue...the NPC better have cast a spell or be using some kind of power which forces me to wait. Otherwise why am I playing? If the GM wants to make decisions for my character then put an NPC sign on my character's head and let me roll a new one. If my arrogant act-first/listen-second character gets into trouble, or gets killed because of it, then those are choices and consequences which breathe life into a campaign. Telling your players they are not allowed to do something because you are not ready for them to is poor planning and development.
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You can't have a "readied action" outside of combat, you have to actually choose to take your shot and initiate combat with it for it to matter. If your fast enough or not is represented by your initiative roll.
This is for simplicities sake of course as it is a game with rules and so forth. Plus it could quickly get out of hand if it was allowed given your allowed to ready standard actions. "If the rogue sets off the trap I'm reading to run down the hallway." and other such silliness.
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After reading this, and some other events in game last night, I think I would treat it this way.
First of all, you guys were trying to bluff / diplomacy, thus any attempt to ready an action needs to be covered by sleight of hand, or else just the attempt to ready puts things into initiative.
Second, if you have a readied action when combat begins, and the condition you stated happens, you can use your readied action. Of course that means you only get one, predetermined, move or standard action that round, but in return you get to move up the initiative ladder. If multiple people have readied actions whose conditions are met, they go in initiative order.
I'm going to have to think about this more and make sure it works under the rules without vearing too far into homerule territory (there is nothing in the rules that says you can't ready outside combat.) And also doesn't result in everyone walking around with actions readied at all times. (Which will get annoying, and could result in a lot of civilians getting shot. Of course that could fix the problem.)
Wow! I thought the first two answers were all I'd get after checking for responses yesterday. Those two, and everyone else, really helped clarify the issue. What's more, in a way I can accept.
She shouldn't have had a surprise round, and neither should we. We were caught so we all roll for init & if we lost so be it. She gets away and wastes a lotta time with a huge barred door. But if even one of us had beaten her initiative, the plan would have worked to an extent. Thanks all, I still like hearing the extra thoughts you're adding!