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Hello,
I've been constructing a few builds FOR PFS (lvl 11 max) to see what is most optimal for a ranged thrower build (Ninja, Martial Artist, or Monk of the Empty Hand)
The differences between the 3 are as follows:
MotEH - Flurry 9/9/4/4/-1, at level 11 can thrown light weapons at a total distance of 40ft when using 1 Ki Point. Light Weapon damage is treated as 1d6 crit: 19-20/x2 (1d10 if using ki for unarmed dmg replacement), either as B,P,or S dmg type. Can add effects to weapons thrown. Add improved critical and crit range for ranged thrown is 17-20/x2. (You could either use darts, wushu darts, or as I read it use shurikens and choose to treat them as an improvised weapon). You still get Slow Fall, +30move speed, great saves, improved evasion, and deflect arrow (optional monk bonus feat). Roughly 25dmg + 20% chance of crit (at 4x the range of a Ninja's shuriken) on average.
MARTIAL ARTIST - Flurry 9/9/4/4/-1, at first this looked promising with the ability to bypass damage resist but I believe clustered shot would essentially achieve this as well. Typical light weapon would be 1d3 (wushu dart) crit: 20/x2 with 10ft range. You get roughly +3atk, +2dmg, and can bypass DR when accounting for fighter feats available as MA and MA skills. Has good saves, +30move speed, improved evasion, deflect arrows.
NINJA - Flurry of Stars while using 1 ki for 1 extra attack - 6/6/6/6/1 (correct me if I'm wrong). Can take Pressure Points to deal 5+ str or dex ability damage from a ranged flurry sneak attack. Alternatively you could take the Bleed attack and enemy takes 6 ongoing bleed dmg each round till successful heal check. Ninja has the ability to go invisible, mirror image, use unlearned tricks, master trick: assassinate or invisible blade (greater invisibility). Ninja receives Improved Uncanny Dodge and Light Steps also.
Ninja tricks taken (5 available) - Pressure Points, Flurry of Stars, Vanishing Tricks, Shadow Clone, Forgotten Tricks.
Master Trick taken - Invisible Blade
I believe Ninjas can add manyshot, rapid shot, and others to increase the amount of shurikens thrown which monks can't during a Flurry of Blows (from my understanding). Also during Greater Invisibility, all shurikens cause sneak attack dmg. So 5 attacks at 6/6/6/6/1 which if all hit cause dmg from 5 shurikens at crit:20/x2 + 30d6 (5 sneak attacks). Roughly 7dmg + 90 on average for a sneak attack = 97dmg
CONCLUSION: I believe Ninja and MotEH seem best suited for a ranged thrower.
On one hand, the ninja gets tons of sneak attack damage and causes str or dex ability drain while being able to go invisible and mirror image. (Also has other tricks up his sleeve with Forgotten tricks but at a steep price)
On the other hand, MotEH doesn't need to be hidden to count on dmg, although it's at about 1/3 the dmg of a Ninja's successful sneak attack. MotEH has 30 extra movespeed, 4x thrown range, great saves compared to ninja, can deflect 1 ranged shot per turn, and improved evasion over a Ninja. Keep in mind that EFFECTS dmg from lvl 11 MotEH has not been included which would increase dmg by quite a lot (but I'm not familiar with effects so I've not included an average dmg into this equation.)
QUESTION: Are there any Archetypes I've missed that are good candidates or did I miss anything important on my analysis of the 3 above? I was greatly disappointed by the Martial Artist once I started delving deeper, while MotEH turned out better than I thought and Ninja turned out as I expected with their shuriken proficiency.
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Just glancing at the EFFECTS table a MotEH could:
WOUNDING - 5bleed dmg per round if all 5 hit.
SEEKING - negate miss chance / concealment.
KEEN - 17-20/x2 turns into 13-20/x2 for crits. Assuming you picked up the Improved Critical Feat you'll have a 35% crit chance.
GHOST TOUCH - can hit incorporeal creatures.
BANE - extra 2d6 per dart. 5d10 dart dmg + 10d6 extra dmg if all hit. Average of 25dmg + 30dmg = 55dmg a round if all hit.
DISTANCE - 20ft turns into 40ft + 20ft from MotEH ability = 60ft throw range.
THUNDERING - not as appealing but 5 chances for crit to deafen a creature.
All above effects are +1 cost except Wounding which costs 2 ki. Unfortunately MotEH can't use Vorpal or Brilliant Energy on weapons till 15th level since they both cost more than 3 points. Both great additions if your MotEH is going to lvl 15+ though.
One thing I did notice is that MotEH according to RAW allows them to use any item as a light hammer, replacing all values, which has a 20ft throw range. So he can essentially throw any light weapon.
I may have missed some good effects but just glancing those ones stood out. So you could spend 3 ki and FoB 5 darts with Bane (you get to pick, no need to buy and not be able to use), Keen, and Thundering. UMD a wand of(Greater) Magic Weapon or Divine Power for more bonuses.
I know in a PFS game Ki Weapons comes at the last level but it does add a lot of extra power for a MotEH focused on throwing weapons.
You could look at Sohei. Once you reach level 6, you get Weapon Training (and can use gloves of dueling) with a weapon group; thrown weapons is one of them. You also get the ability to flurry with that group, so you'd be able to use flurry of blows *and* Rapid Shot (though any other class could just use TWF + Rapid Shot for about the same effect).
Anyone other than the Ninja build would probably want to make the most out of the fact you add str to damage in order to put out good DPR. It's just a shame PF doesn't seem to have an equivalent to the Brutal Throw feat of D&D 3.5.
If the throwing doesn't have to be with Shuriken/Darts (title said shuriken/darts, OP doesn't specify), you could get a Blinkback belt and the Two-handed Thrower feat (and Quickdraw) to do a lot of str-based damage with a 2H weapon. Sohei would then let you flurry when you otherwise couldn't TWF (just has to be a weapon on the thrown weapons group that could conceivably be two-handed) due to using both hands for the one weapon. Would be prohibitively expensive if the DM forced you to get your strength enhancements in the belt slot, too, though (like in PFS).
Blinkback Belt
Price 5,000 gp; Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Weight 2 lbs.
A set of clips is attached to this segmented belt constructed of metallic links. Up to two one-handed melee weapons or up to four light melee weapons can be hung from the belt in straps or sheaths. When the wearer draws a weapon attached to this belt and throws it before the end of her next turn, the weapon teleports back to its strap or sheath immediately after the attack is resolved.
Two-Handed Thrower (Combat)
You hurl weapons with both hands and with great force, sometimes using a whirling technique to send your weapon flying through the air at tremendous speeds.
Prerequisite: Str 15.
Benefit: Whenever you use two hands to throw a one-handed or two-handed weapon, you gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus. Using two hands to throw any weapon requires only a standard action for you. If you also have the Quick Draw feat, you can throw two-handed weapons at your full normal rate of attacks.
Normal: You add your Strength bonus on thrown weapon damage, regardless of available hands. Throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action.
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AFAIK a sohei only gets x1 str dmg even with 2handed weapons when using FoB. I could be mistaken though. I'm not sure if the Two-Handed Thrower feat would bypass the Sohei restriction though.
Great idea with the Blinkback belt together with a 2hander.
A few questions though is how far can you throw a 2handed weapon as a Sohei? A MotEH could throw ANY light weapon at 20ft range, spend 1 ki and bump it up to 40ft for that round. Which I believe is for all attacks with that weapon, not just 1 specific item.
I'm not sure how much more damage you'd get though going Sohei instead of MotEH. You'd be carrying a LOT of weight as a 2handed Sohei thrower and a MotEH spending 1 ki is doing 5darts at 1d10, crit:17-20/x2 attacks with darts which won't weigh anything. Not sure how much more the Sohei would be dishing out per a round though.
Alright, looked at MotEH. Those enhancements cost 1 ki per enhancement and only last ONE ROUND. That is super duper incredibly horrible, and a complete waste of ki.
Do you only have one encounter per day? The only way MotEH is remotely viable is at level 11+ if you use Qingong Monk to get Ki Leech and then replenish your ki after each battle by beating the snot out of a captive prisoner you keep in a bag of holding or something. Which requires a) high levels; b) being Evil; c) a DM willing to allow the cheese.
I think the 2H thrower feat would override the flurry rule, but I admit I'm unsure.
There wouldn't be a lot of extra weight, though. You'd just have one weapon (and, I'd suggest, at least one back-up) you full attack with off of the blinkback belt. And you'd be focused on high strength anyway. You'd actually probably have less encumbrance issues than the ninja toting around a ton of shuriken.
Throw distance would depend on the weapon you're throwing. Most would be 10 ft. If you could justify two-hand throwing a javelin, that would be 30 ft.
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@BBT, I don't understand why arrows would be better choice as MotEH though. All attributes for any improvised weapon are substituted for the Light Hammer attributes.
"A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies (substituting ALL of their statistics for the listed weapon): a light weapon functions as a light hammer, ..."
Light Hammer: medium - 1d4, crit 20/x2, range 20 ft, dmg type blunt.
Obviously weight and cost wouldn't be substituted though based on common sense.
EDIT: Btw, I forgot that at level 6 you get improvised weapon master which turns that into 1d6, crit 19-20/x2. Or lvl8 spend 1ki and treat weapon type "darts" as unarmed dmg which is 1d10 for 1 round.
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Would you be able to full attack with a blink weapon though? It returns to you but can you throw something 5 times and it return 5 times all in the course of a full attack action? I would think the weapon would return at the end of the full attack leaving you with throwing 1 weapon, and it returning for use after you're done. It could work, just curious if that's stated somewhere or not allowed in PFS.
Also, you're right about the MotEH wasting a ton of Ki. I'd agree you'd have to take a TON of vows, multiclass qingong monk, or Hungry Ghost (too lazy to look that up to see if that is an allowed multiclass option).
I guess it'd typically be only useful for a MotEH to spend 1 ki per round for Bane since you can choose the type to match your enemy and it gives 2d6 per hit (10d6 extra dmg if all hit).
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Arrows a better improvised, as they are ammunition, and can be drawn as a free action, without Quickdraw.
Also, they can be made of special materials, for cheap, and there are various special arrows, like the Durable Arrow, which is basically a reusable piece of ammunition, and the only Adamantine weapon you can afford at first level.
If you do this with the Monk of the Empty Hand, then you can grab the Enlightened Warrior trait, and dip into Breaker Barbarian.
You will want a Belt of Mighty Hurling if you go this route.
If you go Wushu Dart, or Wooden Stake, you can go Brawler Fighter, and two weapon fight them. Both can be enchanted with the Agile enchantment, which allow you to use dexterity for damage.
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@BBT - I think you forgot that Shurikens are treated as ammunition for the purpose of drawing them as a free action. The same thing for Darts and Wushu Darts. But you are correct that shurikens are 4x more expensive than arrows. Dan bongs make for interesting throwing weapons also since they are weightless, 1d3 19-20/x2 crit, half the price of shurikens (10 for 1gp), can be used defensively as "blocking", and have a 10ft throw range.
I'm not sure where Durable Arrow is from. But from Ultimate Combat and APG I have access to iron tipped, whistling, smoke, blunt, and flight arrows. The question is how far of a distance can an arrow be thrown? If improvised then it's 20ft as a light weapon.
I will see if I can find where the Enlightened Warrior trait comes from and Breaker Barbarian. (I only have Core Rulebook, APG, and UC at the moment)
Deadly Dealer feat should be mentioned.
Your skill with handling cards and arcane talents allow you to turn mundane cards into deadly weapons.
Prerequisites: Arcane Strike, Sleight of Hand 5 ranks.
Benefit: You can throw a card as though it were a dart, with the same damage, range, and other features. You must use the Arcane Strike feat when throwing a card in this way, or else the card lacks the magical force and precision to deal lethal damage. A card is destroyed when thrown in this way.
Harrow cards are treated as masterwork weapons when thrown using this feat, but are still destroyed after they are thrown. A harrow deck can no longer be used as a fortunetelling device after even a single card is thrown.
A spellcaster with this feat can enhance a deck of cards as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. This enhancement functions only when used in tandem with this feat, and has no affect on any other way the cards might be used. Only a character who possesses this feat can make use of an enhanced deck of cards, and must still use the Arcane Strike feat to activate the cards’ enhancement.
@BBT - I think you forgot that Shurikens are treated as ammunition for the purpose of drawing them as a free action. The same thing for Darts and Wushu Darts.
I do not believe that to be true in regards to darts of any kind.
