Two levels in Hungry Ghost, but when you hit third level, dip one level in Crusader Cleric to either Libicocco (for an evil toon) or Sarenrae (for a good guy). This gives you proficiency and Weapon Focus for Scimitar. At third level, get Crusader's Flurry, or Dervish Dance. Eventually, get them both, as well as Weapon Finesse. I suggest playing a Svirfneblin. My Hungry Ghost idea was to drop 4 levels into Rogue, as well (Uncanny Dodge, Talents like Trap Spotting, etc). So eventually, 1 Cleric, 4 Rogue, 15 Monk.
STR 13 (-2)
DEX 18 (+2)
CON 16
INT 13
WIS 17 (+2)
CHA 11 (-4)
Which turns into:
STR 11
DEX 20
CON 16
INT 13
WIS 19
CHA 7
At level four, drop a point into Wisdom. From then on out, put it in Dexterity.
Slap the Agile enchantment on your scimitar when you can.
Take Truth, Cleanliness, and Celibacy Vows.
Truth can be a roleplaying gig. Cleanliness is easy with a weapon and a Cracked Orange Prism Ioun Stone (add Prestidigitation to your cantrips, clean yourself quickly and easily. Depending on your outfit, get another Ioun stone for Mending). Celibacy is fairly easy, and you'll be self healing, and stuff.
Gotta go, but hope you like the ideas.
The level dip in to cleric is needed for crusader's flurry with a high crit weapon, so I'm with Mechanical Pear on that one. The levels in rogue, however, kinda kill the build for me. Monk is a very level based class, hungry ghost monks even more, and the rogue hurts your BAB and flurry progression, not mention your hungry ghost stuff.
I'd also go strength based instead of dex for power attack. Yes, your AC will be lower, but your damage will be raised by quite abit. I might also skip out on the vows, as HGM gets ki back when they crit or drop a foe so running out is much less of a problem for them. Then again I don't like them for roleplay reasons, so it's up to you.
Just go with a 19-20 crit weapon until you get crusader's flurry, then hack things up with the 18-20 crit weapon. You'll want to get keen as soon as possible, though. It's either that or wait till 13th for improved crit.
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I would go dwarf for race and allocate stats w/race factored as
str 18
dex 16
con 15
int 13
wis 19
cha 9
At 4th go wisdom bump the either con 8th and strength after or just strait strength bumps. For feats it's really up to you except for 3rd and 5th, at which I would take crusader's flurry and power attack respectively. Maybe steel soul for some extra saves vs spells? As I said, I don't like the vows myself, but they are helpful.
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Well, the stats for the Svirfneblin are infinitely better than just the attribute boosts. +2 dodge, +2 to all saves, small sized, so +1 to hit and AC, Spell Resistance = Class + 11, constant Nondetection on you (so you could hide better, with your +4 size bonus, and up to +4 racial bonus), plus some other small crap. But with most of my monks, DEX and WIS are the most important, and they get bonuses to both. So, yeah.
The Rogue does kinda hurt the build, and the dude could easily go without. But DEX builds like uncanny dodge, and I gave him quite a bit more to do outside of battle (he becomes the scout, he can track (Follow Clues), he auto-spots the traps and disables them).
And being a melee dude, sometimes he flanks. A +2d6 damage during that isn't worthless? Besides, four level dip in Rogue only loses a +1 to effective BAB.
At level 20, the Vows only give something like 9 bonus Ki Points, so it's not a major boon. Gives your character a little extra flavor, though, and, I mean, hey, it's 9 ki points.
I forgot to mention adding Qinggong archetype as well as Hungry Ghost. Kinda seems like a given, but making sure.
Get rid of Slow Fall, gain Barkskin (190 Minutes, +5 Natural Armor, 1 ki point).
Get rid of High Jump, get Scorching Ray (3 rays, 4d6 fire, 60ft. range, 2 ki points). Etc.
And not to ramble way too much, but if you did keep it pure Monk with only a one level dip in Cleric, you can get Dimensional Agility at level 13, Assault at 15, Dervish at 17. Incredibly late in the game, but fun, nonetheless, when you get there.
Nope, sorry, I'm gonna keep rambling, if you don't mind :D?
Once you have a bit of free money, get one spiked gauntlet. Up to +5 enchantment, and Lifesurge. At level 13, that means you get up to 6 temp hp with every hit. With your scimitar (or if you're strength based, maybe your katana? With your deity being Shizuru), you could have Vicious. +2d6 every hit, 6 temp hp gained, then 1d6 lost. Your main weapon should also have Ki Focus, so it will count as Lawful, Cold Iron, Silver, and Adamantine. I'd make it adamantine anyway, with the Impervious enhancement. Slap on a locking gauntlet. You'll kinda suck without the weapon, so keep it safe.
Ring of Ki Mastery. Meditation Crystal. Headband of Ki Focus. Necklace of Ki Serenity.
Yea, the svirfs pretty cool, but remember that you have to drop the SR for people to heal you, though that's not so bad as the HGM get's HP when ever he crits. I have disagree with you about the dex and wis focus, unless agile is involved. I play with a str based monk on occasion, and he kicks all kinds of butt. A high strength is generally needed to make sure all those flurry attacks connect and do good damage. Again, unless you have agile. Then a dex based build is more than viable.
He can already scout just fine and he should have a great perception and sense motive. Finding traps is cool, as is the sneak attack, but delaying any of the hungry ghost stuff and their progression hurts alot. That's 4 less HP every crit and you get the ability later depending on when you get the levels.
I second the Qinggong archetype. It's pretty darn nice.
So then are you saying to get 1 Cleric crusader, 4 Qinggong monk and 15 HGM?
Qinggong monk is an archetype, so it can be taken at the same time as HGM.
I'd go Q/HG monk 2, crusader cleric 1, Q/HG monk 17.
I'm playing a Hungry Ghost Monk right now. He's lvl 10 straight monk. I don't want to waste my time getting a 18-20 crit weapon when it has a negligible benefit and slows down my progression. I want to get to level 11 as far as possible. That is when you get the real power of the Hungry Ghost Monk.
I thought about doing the Cleric dip for the higher crit weapon. I'm finding it isn't necessary. A 19-20 Temple Sword crits enough that you get your ki point back quite often. At level 10 with haste or blessing of fervor (a fairly common spell) I get six attacks with a ki point spent. I crit at least once or twice every two rounds of hits.
What I would recommend:
1. Stick with one weapon and build up your chance to hit as high as possible. All the misses screw up your damage more than anything else.
2. Quinggong Monk powers can be nice to add a little ranged capacity to your character. I gave up Slow Fall for Scorching Ray. Slow Fall doesn't come up enough.
3. I went Strength-based monk so I could get Power Attack.
4. I'm planning to take 4 levels of Fighter (Weapon Master) to improve my chance to hit. I figure Weapon Training (Temple Sword) with weapon focus and weapon spec with Dueling Gloves should give me a big enough boost to hit. I won't do this until I hit lvl 11. Life from a Stone is a very important ability.
5. I plan to take Critical Focus and Staggering Critical with Medusa's Wrath to get two extra attacks per round at higher level when I crit.
6. I took Crane Style for the extra AoO attack when I'm attacked and the ability to FD without losing much to hit. With haste and a Ki point, I get 7 attacks when I'm attacked. You will crit quite often with seven attacks and you can only use 1 ki point a around. It's important to remember this when worrying too much about getting a 18-20 crit range weapon. You really don't need it.
7. It's all about number of attacks as a Hungry Ghost. More attacks, more crits, more ki and/or hit points recovered, more damage done.
8. Make sure you spend a Ki Point as early as possible so you always have a slight deficit. Don't want to waste crits that can recover Ki. I hate critting when I haven't spent a ki point or had any damage done to myself.
9. I took Vow of Truth. I don't run out of ki points very often. No need to go taking an extreme amount of vows if it doesn't fit your character. You'll be pretty stacked on ki as you level and get ki back whenever you crit, which is quite often.
10. Weapon Enchantments: Focus on enhancement bonus. Don't worry about Ki Focus or any of that. The higher your weapon enchantment, the easier it is to bypass DR. Enhancement bonus increases to hit chance and bypasses DR. About the only other enhancement that is a must have is Keen. You can't get Improved Critical until level 10, so you want to get Keen on your weapon as early as possible.
The Hungry Ghost Monk is pretty fun. I like being able to recover ki points and health. You rarely need healing. Once I give up Abundant Step for restoration I'll be very self-sustaining.
A +X cruel keen ki focus temple sword (possibly ominous as well) is a pretty decent weapon to shoot for at higher levels. Since "monks are proficient with the temple sword," you don't even need to dip into another class or spend a feat.
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I suggest a Str. Monk Flurrying with a Kukri. You only do 1d4 damage per attack, but you have an 18-20 threat and the High Str. lets you do more damage. Or if you do go with crusader's flurry, take up the Katana from Shizuru and have a bronze gong channel focus to convert your channel into Ki. Dwarfs, Humans, Half-Elves/Orcs, and Garuda-blooded Aasimars are the best races for monks that I know of. Grippli are also nice if you want to play small, they have great stat synergy, so do medium size tengu if you want proficiency with other weapons, but the -2 Con hurts.
Yea but the one point of extra crit can mean the diffrence between life and death. and would you weally want to risk that? i undertand what you mean but still its that one point that can make a game changer for the party
You have to fully understand how the Hungry Ghost Monk works to realize why the crit isn't necessary. I was like you and thought it would be a big deal at first, but it isn't.
1. You can only spend one ki point a round. So critting more than once a round can be wasteful.
2. You aren't often hit unless you're the primary melee, especially if you take Crane Style. If you're the primary melee, maybe the point of crit will help.
3. You get ki or hit points for dropping someone to zero hit points as well as critting. In standard modules there are tons of weak creatures you drop througout an adventure. If you're critting something, you're often killing it and you only get the healing off the creature once. At least that is how we play. If your DM does it differently, then maybe extra crit will be more useful. If you can say for example crit a creature and drop a creature below 0 gaining ki points and hit points in that single hit, then it might help.
I barely get hit. I crit enough to recover my ki and hit points easily. I flat out haven't found a single situation where I've felt I had to have that point of crit. I much prefer to reach level 11 because not being able to heal and gain a ki point from undead or constructs is slowing me down more than that point of crit.
I'm not sure what kind of party you're in where one point of crit would be a matter of life and death. It has never come up for me.
I think you're going to want to switch your Con and Wis to keep your AC up, among other things.
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Ok. Sure. I'll list my build. You can play with it as you like.
I did Strength-based like you. I'm not sure what your DM allows for races. I would go Strength, Dex, Wis, Con, Int. Cha.
So let's make you a dual-talent Human since you don't really need the Skill Point and Feat as a monk. I made an Android and my DM let me exchange Str for Dex because he was a war android.
S: 20 (+2 from Human)
D: 17
C: 16
I: 13
W: 15 (+2 from human)
Ch: 11
Main Weapon: Temple Sword, Unarmed Strike, Shuriken (I focus on these three weapons)
1st lvl: Crane Style, Dodge Monk Bonus Feat.
2nd: Deflect Arrows Monk Bonus feat
3rd: Power Attack (You could take Weapon Focus. Either/or is fine)
5th: Crane Wing (You get to deflect a melee attack and a ranged attack at this point)
6th: Combat Reflexes (AoOs are nice with Crane Riposte)
7th: Crane Riposte (Free deflection and AoO counter-attack)
9th: Quickdraw (I like to be able to full attack immediately)
10th: Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike or Temple Sword-If you have keen on your sword, you can wait and Unarmed Strike)
11th: Weapon Focus (Temple Sword): Need to boost to hit roll as high as possible to maximize Flurry as ACs get higher. Now you have Life From a Stone. So any creature you crit or drop below 0 hit points gives you both a ki point and 11 hit points.
You should have 6 attacks per round with your own ki point. 7 with haste. 8 with Crane Riposte.
12th: Fighter (Weapon Master) 1: Critical Focus: Your BAB is +8 now. You want to confirm every single critical hit. This helps.
13th lvl: Fighter 2: Blind-Fight: You don't want to lose your Dodge bonuses against Invisible creatures in melee since Dodge bonuses are important to your AC.
14th Fighter 3: Weapon Training (Temple Sword): You want to buy gloves of dueling now. This will give you a total boost to hit of +3 attack and +3 damage. You're hitting far more often now with your flurry.
15th: Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization (Temple Sword): Total bonus from Fighter levels +4 attack/+5 damage, Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Bonus to hit for Flurry without taking into account Magic items:
Fight Defensively Flurry with Power Attack:
+17/+17/+17/+12/+12/+7 Dam: 1d8+18
Bonus to AC: +4 Dodge Bonus
Able to deflect one ranged and one melee attack per round.
If dealing with a really high AC: Don't bother Power Attack and boost to hit by 4.
16th: Monk 12: Replace Abundant Step with Restoration Spell-like Ability using Quinggong Monk Archetype. You are able to get rid of negative levels, ability damage, ability drain, and the like with a Standard Action with no material component required. Situational, but useful. No cleric can remove such negatives with a Standard Action.
17th: Monk 13 Staggering Critical: Every time you crit, Stagger your opponent. Reduces them to one attack you can deflect. And sets up Medusa's Wrath.
18th: Monk 14: Medusa's Wrath: Every time Staggering Critical Works, you take a single Unarmed Strike giving you two more attacks. At this level that will be a total of:
9 attacks with ki point. 10 with haste. 11 with Crane Riposte. If the opponent is staggered, he gets only one attack to your 11.
19th level: Monk 15: I'm planning to exchange Quivering Palm for Dragon's Breath or Ki Shout. I think I want an AoE attack just in case I have to deal with Swarms. I hate not being able to do anything to a Swarm.
20th: Monk 16: You don't really get anything.
Magic Items you want:
+5 Keen Vicious Lifesurge Temple Sword: The innate ability of the Hungry Ghost Monk to heal himself makes Vicious perfect for you. You get up to 12 attacks per round. That will be 12d6 damage from the Vicious or an average of 42 points. You'll heal an average of 32 a round and get an average of 16 or more Temp hit points. The Vicious will drain temp hit points and allow you to build up more since you max out at 16.
Stat boosting items.
monk's robe
You're a self-healing, damage dealing machine.
Your damage should be around 1d8+32 damage. Crit: 17-20 +2d6 untyped
Average Damage: 43 per hit/80 per crit
With up to 12 attacks a round.
That's my build. So far it has been highly effective and should become moreso once I improve his to hit chance. You can switch out some feats like Quickdraw or Blind-Fight if you have other feats you like or that improve your damage or hit chances.
Nice build, Raith! Seems like you've got everything you need and none of what you don't.
Why'd you choose dex over wisdom, btw? I went with a higher wisdom just to make sure my flat footed AC stayed high and DC on my punishing kick stayed a point or 2 higher.
I went wisdom over dex with the actual build. I figured Texas preferred Dex.
At low levels the higher wisdom is better. At higher levels it doesn't matter as much with a party.
Even with a 15 wisdom with a +2 or so item you have 10 ki points at level 10 with Vow of Truth. I rarely run low on Ki Points. You renew them often with crits.
You can go either way and be ok. Both stats help AC. As a Hungry Ghost nothing really to save against because you don't get Stunning Fist. I don't plan to take Quivering Palm, so don't need a high DC for that.
Dex helps to hit roll with shuriken, reflex save, and initiative.
Either one is fine. Though it would be real cool if Texas could take a point off that 17 and put it on that 15. Then he would have a 16 for each. That's a nice starting point.
Texas, I made him a Dual-talent human. You can trade the bonus feat and skill point you get for being human for a +2 to a second stat. It's in the Advanced Race Guide. Since you're a monk with plenty of skill points and feats, you might as well do it.
Thanks for the explanation.
My monk's in a gestalt game and I've got inquisitor levels along with the monk levels, so my wisdom's doing double duty (Triple, actually...the conversion inquisition is letting me play party face as well). I debated a bit but finally went with Wis>Str>Dex instead of Str>Wis>Dex.