Greetings,
I fear my search-fu isn't strong enough:
If as spellcaster wins initiative and casts Telekinetic Charge on the groups fighter, who is rather slow and - lets say last in initiative. The fighter gets to make an immediate attack vs. an opponent he lands beside.
You telekinetically launch an ally across the battlefield to anywhere within this spell's range. While moving, your ally is flying just above the ground unless you wish otherwise. Movement from this spell provokes attacks of opportunity as normal, although you can lift your ally over objects or out of enemy reach, as long as your ally remains within this spell's range. If your ally lands adjacent to an opponent, he can spend an immediate action to make a melee attack against that opponent with a +2 bonus on the attack roll.
Is that fighter still considered flat-footed until his initiative count, although he allready made an attack that round? (RAW I would say - yes, but that seems rather ilogical).
Well he couldn't take the immediate action to actually get the attack in the first place as he's flat footed.
Flat footed prevents you from making AoO's. It does not prevent you from taking immediate actions.
At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed.
Immediate actions are not your first regular turn, so the fighter is still flat footed in this scenario.
Immediate actions aren't allowed while flat-footed.
Immediate Actions
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.
I stand corrected. Hurray for only putting part of what you can't do while flat footed under that rule.
Although I think that is a little weird. If I fall in a pit trap I can cast feather fall. If I'm surprised in combat, and bull rushed off a cliff I can't.
I stand corrected. Hurray for only putting part of what you can't do while flat footed under that rule.
Although I think that is a little weird. If I fall in a pit trap I can cast feather fall. If I'm surprised in combat, and bull rushed off a cliff I can't.
The way traps work with initiative is...very very special. Due to diviners and sohei, a GM couldn't even try to make this consistent by claiming that traps "go on the surprise round" like a haunt, or else those two classes could auto-defeat all traps.
The way traps work with initiative is...very very special. Due to diviners and sohei, a GM couldn't even try to make this consistent by claiming that traps "go on the surprise round" like a haunt, or else those two classes could auto-defeat all traps.
Unless otherwise stated, most traps have a duration of instantaneous; once triggered, they have their effect and then stop functioning. Some traps have a duration measured in rounds. Such traps continue to have their listed effect each round at the top of the initiative order (or whenever they were activated, if they were triggered during combat).
Emphasis mine. In a round about sort of way traps are shown here to always be at the top of the initiative. So a sohei or diviner could not get around a trap due to being able to act in a surprise round.
However I would consider it odd that a player could take immediate actions while flat footed (if that were allowed). I just found the whole RAW on this in relation to feather fall a strange paradox.
The way traps work with initiative is...very very special. Due to diviners and sohei, a GM couldn't even try to make this consistent by claiming that traps "go on the surprise round" like a haunt, or else those two classes could auto-defeat all traps.
Unless otherwise stated, most traps have a duration of instantaneous; once triggered, they have their effect and then stop functioning. Some traps have a duration measured in rounds. Such traps continue to have their listed effect each round at the top of the initiative order (or whenever they were activated, if they were triggered during combat).
Emphasis mine. In a round about sort of way traps are shown here to always be at the top of the initiative. So a sohei or diviner could not get around a trap due to being able to act in a surprise round.
However I would consider it odd that a player could take immediate actions while flat footed (if that were allowed). I just found the whole RAW on this in relation to feather fall a strange paradox.
Nice! So a trap can be considered to act on a surprise round and always win initiative. Thus, you need to have Uncanny Dodge to use feather fall against a pit trap.
Does that mean traps are all mythic creatures? ;)
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What's wrong about that situation is simply the casting time for feather fall.
In 3.0 it was a free action (like a Quickened spell). You can only take free actions on your own turn, so that made the spell not fit for purpose.
When 3.5 got around to adding swift and immediate actions, they changed the casting time of Quickened spells in general and feather fall in particular to a swift action. You can only take swift actions on your own turn, so again not fit for purpose.
They quickly realised that, and changed the casting time of feather fall to an immediate action. Which can't be used when flat-footed.
Also, it is possible to (mis)read the rules on falling to read that you can't cast spells while falling unless you make a concentration check DC 20+spell level, which is a likely fail for a 1st level caster.
The solution is this: change the casting time to be 'immediate or special', with a note to the effect that, although it can be cast in the same way as any other spell with an immediate action casting time, it can also be triggered whenever the caster falls, no check required.