Greetings,
I did a couple of searches on the Subject and couldn't find the answer I was looking for; I hope my post isn't duplicating a previous thread.
I wanted to know how the Baleful Polymorph (BP) spell would affect the powers of a Druid. I'm a first-time GM creating an NPC for an upcoming game, and would like to double-check on possible limitations to his/her powers and abilities.
I suspect that BPing a Druid would be a bit foolish, considering they have powers and feats that work while in an animal form. Here are my observations:
i) "Wild Empathy" would work normally, though, depending on the form chosen by the BP caster, the Druid's initial attitude toward creatures might need adjustment. For example, a Druid polymorphed into a predator would have more difficulty being Empathetic towards prey, and vice versa;
ii)"Wild Shape" will allow the Druid to change into other animals, but changing back will revert them to their BPed form;
iii) "A Thousand Faces" would be rendered temporarily inoperative as the character would be unable to maintain a humanoid form (This is a non-multi-classed NPC);
iv) The "Natural Spell" and "Wild Speech" Feats will work normally while in the BPed form;
v) All other powers, such as "Trackless Step", "Venom Immunity", etc. would work normally.
Please let me know if I'm on-point will everything, or if there's anything I'm wrong about, or simply overlooked.
Thanks in advance,
Byronus
If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its ... supernatural ... abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own.
... as long as baleful polymorph remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form. ... a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day.
Since Wild Shape is a supernatural ability, a Druid is stuck if both saves are failed, unless that Druid is of the Shapechanger Subtype.
Baleful Polymorph removes the ability to cast spells (if the second save is failed), so Natural Spell is irrelevant. Trackless Step, Venom Immunity, Wild Empathy, etc. are all generally Extraordinary Abilities, which are also lost. I excised that bit above (sorry, was focusing on the Wild Shape part).
This is all dependent upon failing the second save, though. If the second save is not failed, then yes, a Druid can Wild Shape back to regular form (or any other valid Wild Shape form), could still cast spells, use other Druid-based Extraordinary Abilities, and does not lose its Mental Ability scores.
Baleful Polymorph removes the ability to cast spells (if the second save is failed), so Natural Spell is irrelevant. Trackless Step, Venom Immunity, Wild Empathy, etc. are all generally Extraordinary Abilities, which are also lost. I excised that bit above (sorry, was focusing on the Wild Shape part).
This is all dependent upon failing the second save, though. If the second save is not failed, then yes, a Druid can Wild Shape back to regular form (or any other valid Wild Shape form), could still cast spells, use other Druid-based Extraordinary Abilities, and does not lose its Mental Ability scores.
Thanks for the reply, fretgod99.
The premise for this Druid NPC was that he/she was captured by a particularly arrogant enemy who use the Baleful Polymorph curse to keep them around as a "pet". The NPC made the key second save and was able to escape and continue to thwart his/her nemesis while in animal form.
But you said they could "Wild Shape back to regular form". Do you mean they can go back to their humanoid form, in spite of the curse? I interpreted the "Wild Shape" to be the change to animal and back, with "back", in the NPCs case, to be whatever the Baleful Polymorph curse happens to be.
Thanks again,
:Grim
P.S. I also play guitar. :P
A Druid cannot use Wild Shape at all when afflicted with Baleful Polymorph. Both are polymorph spells (or mimic a polymorph spell). He needs to have that spell broken before he can start wild shaping again.
That assumes the Druid was NOT wild shaped when BP was cast on him. Generally you a polymorph spell fails when cast on target already under a polymorph effect. I don't remember if there is an exception made in the BP spell.
Edit: GM fiat can overcome any potential issues with your NPC if you wish.
A Druid cannot use Wild Shape at all when afflicted with Baleful Polymorph. Both are polymorph spells (or mimic a polymorph spell). He needs to have that spell broken before he can start wild shaping again.
That assumes the Druid was NOT wild shaped when BP was cast on him. Generally you a polymorph spell fails when cast on target already under a polymorph effect. I don't remember if there is an exception made in the BP spell.
Edit: GM fiat can overcome any potential issues with your NPC if you wish.
This is true. I spaced on that when I was replying the second time. If you miss your first save on the BP, then you can't Wild Shape because BP prevents any other polymorph effect, save those by creatures with the Shapechange Subtype, Incorporeal creatures, and Gaseous creatures.
So, "Wild Shape" would be temporarily inoperative, just like the "A Thousand Faces" ability. Everything else would work fine, provided that the Will save was successful, correct?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
Actually wild shape would not be inoperative. This from the rules on polymorph in general.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.
This means that wild shape will take the place of baleful polymorph at least for duration of wildshape. The BP may or may not be in effect when the wildshape ends. I lean toward not in effect.
A druid already in wildshape or any one who has has polymorph spell in effect on them can just choose to not let the BP go in to effect.
If the second save is failed you will not know that you have wildshape so you will not be able to escape it that way.
That would normally be the case, but baleful polymorph doesn't follow the normal polymorph rules:
Any polymorph effects on the target are automatically dispelled when a target fails to resist the effects of baleful polymorph, and as long as baleful polymorph remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form.
The specific baleful polymorph rules override the general polymorph rules, in this case.
|
Actually wild shape would not be inoperative. This from the rules on polymorph in general.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.
This means that wild shape will take the place of baleful polymorph at least for duration of wildshape. The BP may or may not be in effect when the wildshape ends. I lean toward not in effect.
A druid already in wildshape or any one who has has polymorph spell in effect on them can just choose to not let the BP go in to effect.
If the second save is failed you will not know that you have wildshape so you will not be able to escape it that way.
Baleful Polymoprh has this line in the description:
Any polymorph effects on the target are automatically dispelled when a target fails to resist the effects of baleful polymorph, and as long as baleful polymorph remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form.
So a druid under Wild Shape, would convert back to human, and then into the shape chosen for the BP.
Baleful Polymoprh has this line in the description:
Any polymorph effects on the target are automatically dispelled when a target fails to resist the effects of baleful polymorph, and as long as baleful polymorph remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form.So a druid under Wild Shape, would convert back to human, and then into the shape chosen for the BP.
To clarify:
If a Druid is using "Wild Shape" and is cursed by a Baleful Polymorph and changed into, lets say, a fox, the "Wild Shape" effect is dispelled, and his/her humanoid form becomes said fox.
Later on (and assuming the Will save was successful), the Druidic fox can use "Wild Shape" to turn in to OTHER animals, plants, elementals, or whatever else his/her "Wild Shape" will allow, and return to fox form when the "Wild Shape" expires/ends.
Is this all correct?
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
Baleful Polymoprh has this line in the description:
Any polymorph effects on the target are automatically dispelled when a target fails to resist the effects of baleful polymorph, and as long as baleful polymorph remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form.So a druid under Wild Shape, would convert back to human, and then into the shape chosen for the BP.To clarify:
If a Druid is using "Wild Shape" and is cursed by a Baleful Polymorph and changed into, lets say, a fox, the "Wild Shape" effect is dispelled, and his/her humanoid form becomes said fox.
Later on (and assuming the Will save was successful), the Druidic fox can use "Wild Shape" to turn in to OTHER animals, plants, elementals, or whatever else his/her "Wild Shape" will allow, and return to fox form when the "Wild Shape" expires/ends.
Is this all correct?
No.
Baleful polymorph ends the druids wild shape, and turns her into the fox.
Until the baleful polymorph is dispelled or otherwise removed, no other polymorph effect works on her, including wild shape. Any attempt to wild shape at this point fails.
|
|
While it would be awesome for a baleful polymorphed druid to turn into Tobias, that is not the case. BP prevents the target from using any polymorph effect to assume a new form. This is not the same thing as setting your "natural form" to a fox, it is a total polymorph block.
Further, a druid has no special ability to cast spells while under the effects of BP. The target of BP only loses their ability to cast spells if they fail a second save, but that doesn't mean that if they make the second save they're exempt from the general rule that you can't cast spells with V or S components while in animal form. And Natural Spell only applies to Wild Shape, not polymorph in general:
Benefit: You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while using wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.
The druid can still use non-wild shape special abilities and spells without components, so if they have silent and/or still spell they can probably get free easily. Trackless step means once they escape they'll be impossible to track without magic. Nature Bond might provide useful Su or Ex domain abilities, or a loyal companion who might be able to free the druid, and Wild Empathy still allows them to recruit and animals they happen to come across as allies. And any creature that kept its intelligence through BP will be potentially able to communicate with others through, for example, scratching in the dirt or nodding and shaking its head. A druid is more likely than the average NPC to have some way to communicate while in animal form (unless that way is Wild Speech, which is also limited to Wild Shape only).
...it is a total polymorph block.
...Natural Spell only applies to Wild Shape, not polymorph in general:
And any creature that kept its intelligence through BP will be potentially able to communicate with others through, for example, scratching in the dirt or nodding and shaking its head. A druid is more likely than the average NPC to have some way to communicate while in animal form (unless that way is Wild Speech, which is also limited to Wild Shape only).
Thanks for the help, Weirdo. :)
My idea has the Druidic Fox staging guerrilla warfare on the enemy who Balefully Polymorphed him/her. The inability to cast spells or communicate with and organize his/her people is going to make him/her more desperate for the PCs help. ;)
Side notes: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Baleful Polymorph doesn't have a duration (Permanent), so dispel magic isn't going to fix it. What you want to fix a Baleful Polymorph is Break Enchantment, which has a casting time of 1 minute.
Side notes: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Baleful Polymorph doesn't have a duration (Permanent), so dispel magic isn't going to fix it. What you want to fix a Baleful Polymorph is Break Enchantment, which has a casting time of 1 minute.Baleful Polymorph has a duration of permanent in the third printing and I haven't heard it's different in any other printing. Maybe you're thinking of 3.5 or 3.0.
Well, I'm glad I added the "correct me if I'm wrong"... I was under the impression that a duration of permament meant that the spell could not be dispelled. (I think it's actually an instantaneous duration that has the effects I had in mind.) For the record, here's the relevant rules text proving me wrong. =)
Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.
|
If a Druid in Wild Shape becomes a target of Baleful Polymorph he must make two saves. A failed Fortitude save turns him into a "Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD."
A failed Will save causes him to "lose its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, lose its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gain the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own."
However, if he makes his Will save, in effect come the Polymorph rules which say that "If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell."
If he chooses to accept the new form (perhaps to fool his enemy into believing he's a harmless critter) he cannot use Dispel Magic to dispel his current form, nor cast any spell for that matter, because he cannot make the verbal and somatic components of the spell in his new form. Natural Spell allows you to "complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while using Wild Shape" which is similar, but not the same as being under the effect of a polymorph spell. His only choice is to use Wild Shape, seeing as Wild Shape is a supernatural ability and he hasn't lost it since he made his Will save.
That being said, if the Druid in question fails his Will save he's pretty much stuck until someone else can dispel Baleful Polymporph.
If a Druid in Wild Shape becomes a target of Baleful Polymorph he must make two saves. A failed Fortitude save turns him into a "Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD."
A failed Will save causes him to "lose its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, lose its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gain the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own."
However, if he makes his Will save, in effect come the Polymorph rules which say that "If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell."
If he chooses to accept the new form (perhaps to fool his enemy into believing he's a harmless critter) he cannot use Dispel Magic to dispel his current form, nor cast any spell for that matter, because he cannot make the verbal and somatic components of the spell in his new form. Natural Spell allows you to "complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while using Wild Shape" which is similar, but not the same as being under the effect of a polymorph spell. His only choice is to use Wild Shape, seeing as Wild Shape is a supernatural ability and he hasn't lost it since he made his Will save.
The Baleful Polymorph prevents Wild Shape from working:
Baleful Polymorph: Any polymorph effects on the target are automatically dispelled when a target fails to resist the effects of baleful polymorph, and as long as baleful polymorph remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form.
That being said, if the Druid in question fails his Will save he's pretty much stuck until someone else can dispel Baleful Polymporph.
And the PCs come in to save the day. ;)