Question about natural attacks


Rules Questions


So I have a couple questions about Natural Attacks, (specifically the ones granted by the lesser beast totem rage power but the question applies to more things I guess)

So first, I assume when you have 2 primary attacks you can only use both with a full attack (similar to TWF), now if I read it correctly there isn't a penalty for attacking with both primary attacks like there is with 2 weapons (correct me if I'm wrong please).

So my next questions: do both primary attacks add full str to damage, or is it str to one half str to the other (like with duel weapons)

Also if the character base attack bonus reaches say 6/1 do you get 2 attacks with each natural weapon or is there a feat for that?

For the feat "improved natural attack" if I pick claw, is it just for the one claw attack or for both (I think it's both but I want to be 100% sure cause sometimes I can make mistakes)

also any advice for barbarians? and natural weapon ussage? this is my first time with both :P (and yes I am set in using the natural weapons cause I find the idea quite enjoyable)


there's no penalty, but when combined with manufactured weapons, all natural attacks are considered secondary (-5 to hit, -2 with multiattack)

All primary attacks(except a few with +1.5xSTR) get full strength bonus to damage.(but in combination with manufactured weapons, they are considered secondary and get +0.5xSTR)

Natural attacks don't get iteratives; extra attacks from high BAB.

for improved natural attack it's a type of natural attack; so all claw attacks.

you can't make claw attacks if you are wielding a weapon in the hand. A human barbarian with 2 claw attacks wielding a greataxe can't make his claw attacks. With a battleaxe he can make one claw attack.

Liberty's Edge

What DD said and you are right that you need to full attack.

If you want to go all natural attacking on your foes, get a bite attack as an additional primary if you can (I believe half-orcs can get this).

Also you NEED to buy an Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Sczarni

Save up 36k for a +3 Amulet of Mighty Fists so your attacks can bypass silver/cold iron damage reduction.

Shadow Lodge

Take Eldritch Claws to get your natural attacks to bypass silver and magic DR without spending 36k and then get a +1 Holy Amulet of Mighty Fists to overcome DR/Good, do an extra 2d6 damage v. Evil, and still be bypassing silver/magic DR.


The rage power Animal Fury also gives a bite attack.


so with the 2 claws, even at a high BAB bonus I only get 2 attacks total? that's kind of off putting


and thanks for the responces

Sczarni

Indeed. But if you can get a bite attack you'll have three attacks, all at full BAB, much earlier than anyone else. Even when you reach +11 BAB, only one of your weapon attacks would be at full BAB.


Nefreet wrote:
Indeed. But if you can get a bite attack you'll have three attacks, all at full BAB, much earlier than anyone else. Even when you reach +11 BAB, only one of your weapon attacks would be at full BAB.

And all three would do Full STR as well. It's a trade off, for sure, but can definitely be worth it in a lot of situations.


keaton13 wrote:

Question:So first, I assume when you have 2 primary attacks you can only use both with a full attack (similar to TWF), now if I read it correctly there isn't a penalty for attacking with both primary attacks like there is with 2 weapons (correct me if I'm wrong please).

Answer: You are not wrong. This is correct.

Question: do both primary attacks add full str to damage, or is it str to one half str to the other (like with duel weapons)

Answer: All primary attacks add full STR to damage. Furthermore, if you only have a single natural primary attack, it does 1 1/2 STR to damage.

Question:Also if the character base attack bonus reaches say 6/1 do you get 2 attacks with each natural weapon or is there a feat for that?

Answer: Monsters or characters using ONLY natural attacks don't get the iterative attacks for high BAB. This is only for using manufactured weapons or unarmed attacks. There is no feat that gets around this. Natural weapon attacks use completely different attack mechanics, and your number of attacks is limited only by limbs or body parts capable of making those attacks.

Question:For the feat "improved natural attack" if I pick claw, is it just for the one claw attack or for both (I think it's both but I want to be 100% sure cause sometimes I can make mistakes)

Answer: Claw attacks are always in multiples of 2. If you take Improved Natural Attack, it improves both claws by 1 damage step.

Question:also any advice for barbarians? and natural weapon ussage? this is my first time with both :P (and yes I am set in using the natural weapons cause I find the idea quite enjoyable)

Answer:As a Barbarian, I recommend a race that starts with natural attacks and/or access to Pounce feats. This will save your investment in feats later on and generally compliments your chosen weapon style. It also saves you from having to choose between Beast and Fiend Totem rage powers. Tengu are a good example, as they can start with Claw/Claw/Beak and use the Fiend Totem rage power to get Gore while raging.


well as I don't have the books that would give bite naturally (I only own core and APG) I would have to take animal ferocity to get a bite attack which I'm okay with. Thanks guys I do appreciate the help, and looking at it, I'm okay with not getting the extra attacks with high BAB going this way,


I'm doing society that's why the owning of books matters.

Liberty's Edge

keaton13 wrote:
so with the 2 claws, even at a high BAB bonus I only get 2 attacks total? that's kind of off putting

Actually, you get even more attacks but there is a tradeoff in efficiency.

At BAB 11, with 2 primary attacks (say 2 claws), you can :

1) Use all your primary attacks and make 2 attacks at full BAB and full STR bonus to damage

2) Use a weapon in one hand, make your 3 iterative attacks with it (ie, full BAB, BAB-5, BAB-10) with full STR bonus to damage and make 1 secondary attack (one claw) at BAB-5 and STR/2 bonus to damage. That is a total of 4 attacks

3) Use a weapon in 2 hands, make your 3 iterative attacks with it (ie, full BAB, BAB-5, BAB-10) with 1.5 STR bonus to damage

An important benefit is that you can choose on the spot which of the 3 possibilities is best to use against your specific opponent. Versatility is always a virtue in my book.

Multiattack will reduce the penalties on the secondary attacks if your GM rescinds the "3 natural attacks" prerequisite which is really a meaningless holdover from 3.5 IIRC.

Having natural attacks is an alternate way to TWF to get more attacks per round. Note that it can also be combined with TWF (if you have a natural attack other than the 2 claws on your arms, say a bite).

It is less useful as your BAB grows but the more natural attacks you have, the longer they stay a valid option.


APG has alternate racial trait to give a half-orc a bite attack.


Besides the Amulet of Mighty Fists (which gives enhancements to every natural attack or unarmed strike the user has, but costs twice the usual price), you might also want to look into the helm of the mammoth lord.

This 8,500 gold item gives you another natural attack, a gore, which is primary and does 1d6. It does some other stuff, but that mostly only comes up when you deal with elephants.

Typically, having as many attacks as possible is the key to a natural attack build. With 4 attacks, you will be ahead of the curve until level 15 or so (although a lot of games do not go until that point. bite/claw/claw should cover you well in most circumstances). Remember, all primary natural attacks hit with your full BAB and strength bonus. Do not worry about using power attack, since you are usually going to do quite well with your attack rolls.

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