Sneak Attack of Opportunity


Advice

Liberty's Edge

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Does anyone know of any feat or other special ability or even a trait that can make it possible to use sneak attack damage in an attack of opportunity?

I know that ordinarily you cannot, but there has got to be something out there somewhere. Please help my rogue find it. Thanks!

Robert

Sczarni

As long as you are flanking your opponent, or he/she is otherwise denied their Dexterity modifier, you can indeed apply Sneak Attack damange to an Attack of Opportunity.

I'm a huge fan of the "Opportunist" advanced rogue talent. It doesn't do what you want, but it lets you strike more often each round in melee.

Sczarni

My 12th level Rogue went with Step Up/Following Step/Step Up and Strike/Combat Reflexes/Opportunist, and his damage output began to soar.

Liberty's Edge

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I have been told several times that precision damage cannot be applied to attacks of opportunity. Do you have a ruling that it can?


RobertTHEPerylous wrote:

I have been told several times that precision damage cannot be applied to attacks of opportunity. Do you have a ruling that it can?

Who were you told by?

Because there's nothing in the rules (that I know of) that says you can't deal precision damage on an AoO.

Liberty's Edge

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EVERY DM that I've gamed with in the Indianapolis area. If there is a paizo ruling somewhere here on the forums, I'm not sure where it is, but I'm searching here next. I just got done going over the Core Rulebook a few times, and there is no restriction there.


You're not going to find it here either, because there aren't any dev rulings or anything for stuff that isn't even SUGGESTED in the rules.

Apparently the DMs in the Indianapolis area are part of some anti-Rogue hive mind.

Is it a hold-over from 3.0/3.5 or something?

Liberty's Edge

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Not sure. Might just be that they don't like me. ;-) I'm reviewing the FAQ now and finding nothing there either so I will definitely be asking for proof of that ruling at my next game.

Thanks all!

Sczarni

Granted, most attacks of opportunity aren't going to provide you a chance to get Sneak Attack anyways. And you can't Sneak Attack someone with concealment, either. So your chances are low to begin with, but if you're invisible, or somehow flanking, you're good.


I wonder if they're thinking of a 3.5 rule? I think Pathfinder removed a lot of restrictions that 3.5 had but people still think in the D&D mindset. Next time they tell you can't, ask them politely to tell you where they're getting that rule.

I don't know of any rule that doesn't allow you to get precision damage on an AoO, you just need to meet the criteria for sneak attack. Remember that you don't have to take your AoO in the first square that they provoke in: If a character is moving between you and another PC, you can wait to take your AoO until they're being flanked. Other ways to provoke, like casting or drinking a potion while you're flanking them would also lead to an AoO with sneak attack.

Of course, if the enemy has any sort of tactical acumen, he isn't going to give you many chances to AoO him with Sneak Attack. But that's playing smart, it's got nothing to do with the mechanics.


According to the FYI section on "special damage types", the only instances where precision damage isn't applicable are a) when the target has an abnormal anatomy, b) when the target has no physical form or targetable weak spots, and c) when using an attack that affects an area. There is no stipulation that prevents you from adding precision damage to an attack of opportunity, so as long as the target would be denied their Dex bonus to AC, you're good.

Liberty's Edge

3.5 and PF are the same on this. The RAW is that you get sneak attack as defined in the special ability. It applies to every qualifying attack. AoOs are an attack. It applies if it qualifies.

That is the logic to allow sneak on AoO. It is based on the rules. What is their rules based argument to deny it?

They are wrong. It happens. Rule misunderstandings tend to get a regional life of their own. GenCon should be interesting. :)

Silver Crusade

There is no prohibition on Sneak Attack/AoO.

The flanking position isn't effective if your flanker is still flat-footed and doesn't have Combat Reflexes, as your flanker must threaten that space...

I'm just trying to understand why they said it. But they are wrong.

Liberty's Edge

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Their basis, as it was explained to me, is that AoO's are quick strikes, not an actual attack and that you can't pick out an enemy's weaknesses in a split second shot.

I have disagreed with the mechanics on this, and a few other things, from personal fighting (SCA) experience; Much like not being able to sheath a weapon as a free action (Takes about 1 second or less for experienced fighters) or dropping a shield as a free action (Like a hockey glove, comes off real easy).

This comes about mostly because my wife has a fighter that is a chain whip trip specialist. If she trips someone (Using Greater Trip) in the square next to me and that causes an AoO, I should get sneak attack because they are flat on their bum and denied dex. DM's have told me no sneak attack on AoO. So, I figured I'd ask here.

I saw in Core Rules where Precision Damage is not to be multiplied on a critical hit (Again, why not? Game Balance, that's all) but nowhere did I see it prohibited on AoO.

Thanks again, to all of you for helping me confirm this. Has there ever been that kind of a ruling in old FAQ's?

Liberty's Edge

There is no old FAQ that I'm aware of. What's happened here is that they have created an concrete rationale about the nature of an AoO from whole cloth and then extrapolated from that.

There is no rules basis for calling an AoO a "quick strike" in a manner that is somehow different from any other attack.

Lantern Lodge

RobertTHEPerylous wrote:
This comes about mostly because my wife has a fighter that is a chain whip trip specialist. If she trips someone (Using Greater Trip) in the square next to me and that causes an AoO, I should get sneak attack because they are flat on their bum and denied dex. DM's have told me no sneak attack on AoO. So, I figured I'd ask here.

The prone condition doesn't give sneak attack.

Quote:

Prone

The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

Silver Crusade

Deadmoon wrote:
RobertTHEPerylous wrote:
This comes about mostly because my wife has a fighter that is a chain whip trip specialist. If she trips someone (Using Greater Trip) in the square next to me and that causes an AoO, I should get sneak attack because they are flat on their bum and denied dex. DM's have told me no sneak attack on AoO. So, I figured I'd ask here.

The prone condition doesn't give sneak attack.

Quote:

Prone

The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

The AoO would go off before the target was prone, anyway. He can still get his sneak attack if he is flanking with his wife's character when the trip happens (or they have the teamwork feat that allows catty-corner flanking).

Regarding the original point, all sneak attack requires is flanking or a target that has been denied its Dex bonus to AC. There is nothing about AoOs that restricts precision damage; the "quick strikes" argument is a (poor) attempt to apply some sort of real-world impression on a game mechanic. Do the same DMs deny the bonus damage from Power Attack on an AoO? After all, you can't apply all your strength on a "quick strike," right?

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