RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So my wife was lucky enough to receive a kitsune boon, and was excited to play a "magical swordfighting fox person". She decided on a magus. However, 3 levels in, she's feeling bogged down by the complexity, to the point that she's considering making a new character altogether.
So I had the thought that perhaps an Eldritch Knight would work better: similar concept, but on any given turn she's either casting a spell or stabbing something, rather than combining the two in complicated ways. (Somebody wanna tally up how many different total damage rolls you can make when you're a magus with a rapier, Arcane Pool, Pool Strike, Spellstrike, frostbite, and Precise Strike? Yeah, her damage roll is different nearly every turn, by potentially huge amounts. But I digress!)
So I was thinking, maybe she could use UltCamp's retraining rules to switch into Fighter/Wizard and head toward EK. Conveniently, the magus has "synergy" with both fighter and wizard!
She's 3rd level, so it'll cost 150gp and 5PP per retrained level. So right now (well, after the 14th; you know what I mean), she could pay 300gp and 10PP to retrain two of her magus levels into two wizard levels, leaving her as a magus 1/wizard 2. But now she's almost out of PP.
So let's assume she does that, and then (once she has more PP) wants to swap out that remaining magus level for a level of fighter, for the BAB increase and bonus feat. So she loses her magus level and gains a level of fighter.
So here's the question:
How much HP does she have from hit dice now?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I guess I see three possible adjudications:
1) Whichever new level replaces the old 1st level is the one that gets maxed.
2) Once she no longer has her 1st level, the first of the levels she does have (in this case, a wizard level) gets maxed.
3) None of her current hit dice were gained at 1st level, so none of them are maxed.
It's only a few hit points, so it's not that big of a deal, but I'd certainly like to get it right, you know?
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Doesn't the first level in any prepared spellcasting class always get that X + Int mod number of initial spells + cantrips in their spellbooks? I thought that applied even for those multi-classing into a prepared spellcasting class.
That's a whole 'nother can of worms. When she loses that last Magus level, she will "lose" 3+Int Mod spells from her spellbook. Worse, does she get to keep scribed spells she learned as a magus?
But with the hit points, I would assume you're retraining from most recent choice back, so it would go as Chris described. Worst case would be a ruling that your spells and hit points don't change at all (unless you retrain them, too). That seems to be the path they're taking regarding certain class features, but I hope they draw the line there.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Doesn't the first level in any prepared spellcasting class always get that X + Int mod number of initial spells + cantrips in their spellbooks? I thought that applied even for those multi-classing into a prepared spellcasting class.That's a whole 'nother can of worms. When she loses that last Magus level, she will "lose" 3+Int Mod spells from her spellbook. Worse, does she get to keep scribed spells she learned as a magus?
I'm not so sure the rules support altering physical objects in your possession based on retraining a class level.
Worst case would be a ruling that your spells and hit points don't change at all (unless you retrain them, too). That seems to be the path they're taking regarding certain class features, but I hope they draw the line there.
When he completes the training, he immediately loses all benefits from taking ranger level 5 (base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, Hit Dice, hit points, skill ranks, and class features), then gains 1 level in rogue, immediately gaining all the benefits of rogue level 3.
So you lose the HP of the level you retrained out of, then gain all benefits of the newly-gained level.
In any case, it's apparently moot for me now, as she's decided to keep the magus as-is and have a secondary (hopefully simpler) PC to play every once in a while.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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When I say "keep the magus as-is", I mean that'll be her primary PC, played with no changes, but still played. She'll now have a "backup" for lower tiers. (That's actually probably a good idea in the first place, seeing as our kitsune twins are 1 session away from 4th level.)
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I have another strange retraining question.
I have a Rogue with Combat Expertise, as it was a prerequisite for Gang Up and Improved Trip. Now that I have enough Rogue levels to be comfortable, I am looking at taking two levels of Lore Warden for the Knowledge skills and the bonus feats. Low Warden2 gives Combat Expertise as a bonus feat.
Can I then retrain the now-redundant Combat Expertise that was chosen early on the this PC's career? Does the system "remember" which copy of Combat Expertise was used to qualify for Gang Up and Improved Trip?
The retraining language is unclear, which is why I'm asking.
-Matt
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She's 3rd level, so it'll cost 150gp and 5PP per retrained level. So right now (well, after the 14th; you know what I mean), she could pay 300gp and 10PP to retrain two of her magus levels into two wizard levels, leaving her as a magus 1/wizard 2. But now she's almost out of PP.So let's assume she does that, and then (once she has more PP) wants to swap out that remaining magus level for a level of fighter, for the BAB increase and bonus feat. So she loses her magus level and gains a level of fighter.
So here's the question:
How much HP does she have from hit dice now?
Jiggy, I would say it all depends on the order of which levels she retrains.
So, let's break this down, and we'll assume, a CON of 12, and no toughness feat, and all FC bonuses to skills.
Starting: Magus 3: hp = 8 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 21hp
She retrains Magus 3 to Wizard 1. Let's also say that she is retraining the third level of magus, so that is easy.
Magus 2/Wizard 1: 8 + 5 + 4 + 3 = 20hp
Then, she retrains Magus 2 to Wizard 2: 8 + 4 + 4 + 3 = 19hp
Finally, she trains the first level of magus to be fighter
Fighter 1/Wizard 2: 10 + 4 + 4 + 3 = 21hp
At least, that's how I would do it.
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Matt--
I wouldn't think so. You'd be revising the character so that a feat gained at (I'm guessing) 8th level serves as a pre-requisite for feats taken at 3rd and 5th levels.
I think a revised character needs to have been "legal" at all points during its history.
Except that Mike Brock said in another thread that we can't retrain into Fey Foundling since you have to take it at first level and you won't be retraining (using this method) after 1st level. I'm pretty sure you don't have to make sure that your character's history would have worked, just that it works in the present.
I would be okay with Mattastrophic's planned retrain.
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I would be okay with Mattastrophic's planned retrain.
It sounds like I'm good to go, since we have something that indicates that the strict order of feat selection isn't "remembered." Also, what I'm looking at doing, correcting a redundancy, is pretty much in the spirit of retraining anyways. It would be like a Ranger who took Improved Unarmed Strike at 1st level, then multiclassed into Unarmed Fighter when Ultimate Combat came out, going back and retraining his original, now-redundant Improved Unarmed Strike. Or like a Bard who retrains away skill rank selections made redundant by Versatile Performance.
Thanks, both of you,
-Matt