Problems with a wildshaping Bear-Shaman

[Nazrelle]

Greetings Heroes!
For a campaign I'm gonna force myself to play a Druid. I really like Druids, but the "forcing" is, because I'm afraid of that Wildshaping stuff and a bit with Summoning.

At first, let we show you the Character basics:

Dwarf Druid (Bear Shaman) - Level 4

STR 18
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 6

When I look into the Bestiary (1), I find Grizzly Bear and Dire Bear. Both Large Animals.
Let's say, a normal Druid wants to be a bear at level 4 - he can't, or?

Being a Bear Shaman, I can only Wildshape into bears. My wildshape acts like two levels higher for that purpose? That does mean, I can wildshape as Beast Shape 2, so I can transform myself into a large bear at level 2?

As far as I understand wild/beast shape, I can turn into a Grizzly Bear or a Dire Bear. But where are the differences?

The last point I may not get correct: What does such a bearshape grant me now? I would guess:

- Scent and Low-light Vision
- +4 STR, -2 DEX and +4 Natural Armor (and -1 AC /-1 Reflex)
- Bite and 2 Claw Attacks (with grab)

So in the end, I would have the same Character with this adjustments, who can't speak normal, is large sized and looks like a (Dire/Grizzly) Bear. I'm not sure about his Landspeed - will it also increase to 40 ft.? If yes, where I can find that ruling?

Thank you so far!

[thejeff]

As I read it, at Level 2 you don't have Wild Shape yet, so you can't transform into a bear or anything. You can use Totem Transformation to pick up some aspects of the bear, but you largely retain your normal form. At 4th level you get Wild Shape and can use it as normal (Beast Shape I, small or medium animals). It's not until 6th level that the Bear Shaman's special Wild Shape kicks in. After that you get the +2 level for bears, -2 for every thing else. So Beast Shape III, Huge or Diminutive Bears, Beast Shape I, Small or Medium everything else.

The Beast Shape spells and the polymorph school rules cover most of what you need to know. You do get the movement speed.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Yes you may be a gear at level 4 as long as you're familiar with the animal(which as a bear shaman you damn well should be) and you are able to acheive the level of wildshape(beast shape) that it requires(size-wise).

You may shift into anything, not just bears. You just get a bonus with bears in regards to how many times a day you can shift, how long, and what level you're counted as. You can wild shape at level 4 like usual, and depending on what you wildshape, it treates you 2 levels lower(1 shift per day and your wildshaping level) or 2 levels higher if you're a bear. Nobody receives wildshape before level 4 that I know of. A lot of other archetypes receive Wildshape at level 6 and then acquire the same detriment. The detriment only kicks in at level 6, although you receive the Wildshape ability at level 4.

The main differences between forms are the "fluffs" about them, their natural attacks in both frequency and damage, and the special ability.

Here is a bestiary list that might help you determine things. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agyi5tgUTatCdHpKc2x4b2RLRmRQWX g3ZkU3Z216Z0E&hl=en_US#gid=0

What you are assuming you gain is correct, however in regards to the Dex loss, you just lose DEX, the -1 AC and Reflex are due to the loss of that Dex. Don't short yourself.

His landspeed only increases if the Wildshape of that level says it does AND it is granted by the creature you are wildshaping into. Also, you cannot cast spells in wildshape unless you have the feat Natural Spell. That might be important for you to pick up.

"BEAST SHAPE I
School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 min./level (D)
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.

Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

BEAST SHAPE II
School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 4
This spell functions as beast shape I, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, grab, pounce, and trip.

Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus."

This is Wildshape at level 4 and 6.
Nowhere does it say that you gain any land speed. So, you would not.

[thejeff]

polymorph wrote:

In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume.

I think this trumps the lack of mention in the individual spells. Base speed is a general rule, that changes with every form and thus doesn't need to be explicitly granted with each spell.

Also, is there any real advantage to Bear Shaman? You can't take the form of a Bear larger or smaller than actual existing bears can you? Gargantuan Bears or Tiny ones for example? Or are there some? Could you apply templates?

As far as I can tell, there are only Medium and Large Bears. Without the Shaman package, you could become the Medium ones at 4th and the Large at 6th. With it, you can still become the Medium one at 4th and the Large at 6th. You could also become a Huge one at 6th, but does that help if there aren't any huge bears?

[Angra Mainyu]

there are a few advantages to the shaman lines. Totem Transformation and the ability to summon your animal type as a standard action and with templates. For the bear shaman, there is no advantage in wild shaping, only negatives. So the question is: are the benefits worth the -2 on wild shape? For most people thats going to be a no on anything other than the saurian shaman since theres such a large list of dinosaurs to pick from.

[DM Papa.DRB]

You do not get any wildshape till level 6 druid.

Read HERE the Rules as Intended by the Author of the Shaman archetypes.

-- david

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

I'm glad that was clarified somewhere. It's nice to see this.

"RAW in this case, due to my ambiguous and unclear writing, is an arguable point."

I still find it odd that they were worded so different from other Archetypes that were clearly stated "YOU GAIN WILDSHAPE AT 6TH LEVEL". Even then, he admitted RAW is arguable. That's not good. Confusion will still persist with or without this response. :T Last I checked we don't base things off of RAI, but RAW.

It's still good to know though. Thanks David.

[Suthainn]

It's very much down to your GM, talk to him about it. The author didn't intend Shaman to get Wildhape til 6 as mentioned, however this is not RAW, his poor wording or editing by Paizo renders it as able to read either way if you feel inclined. As noted above, all the other archetypes that change the level you gain Wildhape to 6th specifically SAY so, Shamans lack any of this text so it's a perfectly valid reading to go with them getting it at 4th and many people do indeed read it that way (just as many read it the other, check with your GM).

[Atarlost]

I would say you should never use a totem archetype unless you're entire build is based on one of the nonstandard domains or -- only with dinosaur shaman -- summoning. It's just not worth it to have delayed access to all the utility and defensive wildshape forms unless you have a specific plan.

If you're uncomfortable with summoning I'd recommend Storm Druid. Your wildshaping isn't hampered and you spontaneously cast domain spells instead of summon spells.

Bear Shaman, in particular, is terrible. There are few bears for standard action summoning and all the wildshape options are large and none have any BS III abilities so getting +2 effective level at level 6 does absolutely nothing for you. A standard druid would gain access to large bears at the same level and the same power.