Unintelligent alchemist


Rules Questions


For another thread I build an alchemist1/barbarianX with int 6 thinking he still got his mutagen even though he can't create his normal extracts. The thread owner ruled that doesn't work...

The question is simple: can an alchemist with an int score under 10 create and use his mutagen?

Grand Lodge

Not any more than a wizard of int 6 can cast spells.


It seems that extracts and mutagens are tied in with each other. You need 10 int or more to make extracts. I can't see learning one with out the other, extracts being taught first. If your playing a not too smart Barb give him a 10 int and roleplay him dumb. If your taking a -6 to get the extra build points hmmmm cheesey.


I disagree with the above posts. Extracts and mutagens are not "linked". In fact, in the alchemist description they are specified as separate things:

Alchemist wrote:
An alchemist can create three special types of magical items—extracts, bombs, and mutagens.

Extracts require INT. Mutagens do not.

That said: The GMs rule is law.

Now the question becomes is a 6 INT creature smart enough to brew up a pot of tea, never-mind a mutagen?


Avianfoo wrote:

I disagree with the above posts.

The mutagen ability for an alchemist does not require any INT score to use.

That said: The GMs rule is law.

Now the question becomes is a 6 INT creature smart enough to brew up a pot of tea, never-mind a mutagen?


Avianfoo wrote:

I disagree with the above posts. Extracts and mutagens are not "linked". In fact, in the alchemist description they are specified as separate things:

Alchemist wrote:
An alchemist can create three special types of magical items—extracts, bombs, and mutagens.

Extracts require INT. Mutagens do not.

That said: The GMs rule is law.

Now the question becomes is a 6 INT creature smart enough to brew up a pot of tea, never-mind a mutagen?

I would allow it. The mutagen may be a mix of poisonous plants that only works because the alchemist doesn't know it doesn't work... (this also explaine why non alchemists can't use it...

And the reason for the 6 int is heavy racial penalty (it was an ogre), and I kind a like the stoopid giant brewing his magical potion... His mommies recipes...


Mutagen and bombs both lack a requirement to have an intellect in their text, they can be used regardless of your intellect. If they required an intellect they would have wording like this.

D20PFSRD wrote:
To learn or use an extract, an alchemist must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the extract’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an alchemist’s extract is 10 + the extract level + the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier. An alchemist may know any number of formulae.


MrSin wrote:

Mutagen and bombs both lack a requirement to have an intellect in their text, they can be used regardless of your intellect. If they required an intellect they would have wording like this.

D20PFSRD wrote:
To learn or use an extract, an alchemist must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the extract’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an alchemist’s extract is 10 + the extract level + the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier. An alchemist may know any number of formulae.

There is a catch with bombs: while they do not have Intelligence requirement to use, their number of uses is "class level + his Intelligence modifier" without minimum of 1 (like some other abilities). Which means that 1st level Alchemist with negative Intelligence modifier has 0 bombs per day as does 2nd level Alchemist with Intelligence score of 6 or 4th level Alchemist with 3 Int.


Drejk wrote:
There is a catch with bombs: while they do not have Intelligence requirement to use, their number of uses is "class level + his Intelligence modifier" without minimum of 1 (like some other abilities). Which means that 1st level Alchemist with negative Intelligence modifier has 0 bombs per day as does 2nd level Alchemist with Intelligence score of 6 or 4th level Alchemist with 3 Int.

Although, as the post you quoted gives, there's no given point at which you need intelligence for mutagens, by RAW.

Although, it raises an odd thought - if I have x uses/per day of a class feature. When x = 0, do I still have the feature? Will have to look that up.

I digress, the thing is - there's no RAW reason it can't work but, DM fiat is a thing, a pretty important one for RPGs. Just discuss it with whoever's running the game. If they say no, fair enough. Your choice whether to stay in their games.

Shadow Lodge

Why do you have a 6 INT, OP? What race are you? Because having an eleven INT allows you to use extracts like Enlarge Person and you can do more damage, especially with impact weapons.

Sczarni

Bacon666 wrote:

For another thread I build an alchemist1/barbarianX with int 6 thinking he still got his mutagen even though he can't create his normal extracts. The thread owner ruled that doesn't work...

The question is simple: can an alchemist with an int score under 10 create and use his mutagen?

You should allow it anyways, but give it a high failure rate and with very little if not minimal dabbling into being able to create mutagens and other alchemy items.

Oh, the terrible, hilarious, and disgusting ways this could backfire.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I rather like the idea of a mutagen-swilling, bomb-throwing alchemist who is a dimwitted sociopath. Like the fish-throwing guy from the Muppets.


The GM should either play by the rules and allow it, or house-rule it and ban it. Allowing it and then nerfing it is poor form.


Physically Unfeasible wrote:
If I have x uses/per day of a class feature. When x = 0, do I still have the feature?

Yes, Paladins and Rangers get spellcasting at level 4.

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