Use spell books like scrolls - Was this ever a thing?

[Marc Radle]

Was there ever a rule (even an optional rule) allowing you to use spell books like scrolls? I.e., a sorcerer finds a spellbook and rather than just selling it, wants to rip pages out and use them like scrolls.

I realize you obviously can't do this per the Pathfinder RPG rules (A scroll is a Spell Completion magic item, a spellbook is not) and I don't think there ever was a rule that allowed it even in previous versions of the game was there?

Was there maybe an article in Dragon that presented rules for this or anything? Just curious!

Thanks!

[Sniggevert]

There were rules for this is 1st Edition from the Unearthed Arcana. I'm not sure how many iterations of the rules they stayed in though.

[Selgard]

A level 1 spell costs 10 gold to inscribe onto a spellbook.

A level 1 spell costs 25 gold to scribe onto a scroll.

The disparity grows as the spell level grows.

I would say that letting a sorc just rip out a spellbook page and cast it as a scroll is just asking to have him go buying spellbooks instead of scrolls to cast from, in order to save a boat load of cash.

(9th level spell- 810 gold vs 3825).

Neat RP idea, bad for monetary balance.

-S

[TimrehIX]

I know it wasnt a rule in 3e or after.

[Marc Radle]

Selgard, I wasn't proposing that it *should* be allowed, I was just asking if anyone recalls if there ever *was* a rule or optional rule that allowed it in any previous version of the game.

I definitely don't ever remember anything like this, but I know a few gamers that seem to think you can do it ... which makes me curious where they might have gotten the idea that it was ever possible. When asked, they can't remember where they read it, but they are sure it is or at least was possible ...

[Sniggevert]

Marc Radle wrote:

Selgard, I wasn't proposing that it *should* be allowed, I was just asking if anyone recalls if there ever *was* a rule or optional rule that allowed it in any previous version of the game.

I definitely don't ever remember anything like this, but I know a few gamers that seem to think you can do it ... which makes me curious where they might have gotten the idea that it was ever possible. When asked, they can't remember where they read it, but they are sure it is or at least was possible ...

It was in the first few pages after you got the Dungeon Master part of the UA. You would lose the spell out the spell book and have a chance at wiping the entire book as well IIRC. It's been 5-6 years since I've played 1st Ed. is all...though that's all I had really played for the previous 20 ;)

[Hitdice]

In issue 62 of Dragon magazine, Gygax wrote a column on spellbooks which included rules for casting directly from them. It wasn't exactly like casting from scrolls, but very similar.

Edit: I assume those are the same rules that were in UA, as that book compiled most of EGG's "From the Sorcerer's Scroll" stuff.

[Robert Brookes]

I do recall this, vaguely, from my early days of playing 2nd edition. I think we'd allowed the rule after it was discovered in Dragon #62 as mentioned upthread.

I do like the idea of a spellcaster casting their spell directly from an open book. Reading aloud, holding the book aloft, very dramatic and visually appealing.

How to make it mechanically sound and balanced, though, is a question for less tired minds.

[LazarX]

In Pathfinder, no there isn't, and never was one. In 3.5 there was optional stuff in Unearthed Arcana.

[Marc Radle]

LazarX wrote:

In Pathfinder, no there isn't, and never was one. In 3.5 there was optional stuff in Unearthed Arcana.

Interesting. Do you know if the 'cast the spell directly from a spellbook' rule was in the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana? I'd check myself, but I got rid of most of my Third Edition books years ago

[Rynjin]

LazarX wrote:

In Pathfinder, no there isn't, and never was one.

Weeeeeeeell, TECHNICALLY, a Lore Oracle can do something similar.

"Arcane Archivist (Su): Your experience with lore-filled tomes has granted you the ability to cast arcane spells as if they were on your spell list. Once per day, you can cast a spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were on your list of spells known. The spell consumes a spell slot one level higher than the level of the spell. You must have a spellbook containing the spell to cast it in this way, and the spell is erased when you complete the casting. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation."

[Lamontius]

...you...you want me to rip pages out of my spellbook?
What if my character is a Witch?

"Mr. Wiggles come here you do not need all those legs, oh Mr. Wiggles I am so sorry about this, please forgive me but daddy needs to cast a scroll of Ill Omen, *sob* "

[LazarX]

Rynjin wrote:

LazarX wrote:

In Pathfinder, no there isn't, and never was one.

Weeeeeeeell, TECHNICALLY, a Lore Oracle can do something similar.

"Arcane Archivist (Su): Your experience with lore-filled tomes has granted you the ability to cast arcane spells as if they were on your spell list. Once per day, you can cast a spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were on your list of spells known. The spell consumes a spell slot one level higher than the level of the spell. You must have a spellbook containing the spell to cast it in this way, and the spell is erased when you complete the casting. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation."

Again that's a a specific class rule. The Oracle can't create the books they use to fuel their spells,and Magi and Wizards can't burn their own books to cast.

[Marc Radle]

Exactly. I'm not talking about specific class abilities. I'm talking about a general rule which allows any caster to cast spells directly out of a spell book.