I ruined the session with a 75 gp wartrained bison at lvl 1

[Tandriniel]

Hi all,

Need some help :-).

We played a game yesterday, and I thought it would be fun if my first level character pumped his animal handlimg way up, and bpught a wartrained bison (75gp)

Well, it was fun for a couple of encounters, but insta-killing small groups of opponents worked out to be really unbalancing.

I dropped the bison in the interest of fun, but I wanted to come here to understand if this really was RAW.

Also, how about this in for example a PFS-setting?

Clarification would be very welcome.

[Chemlak]

First off, I'd question the price: combat training seems to add 50% to the cost of the base animal. A bison uses the stats of a yak, which costs 24 gp, so a combat trained one should cost 36 gp

Secondly, combat training is only in the equipment lists on mounts, and the yak (and therefore the bison) is a working/farm animal, not a mount, so it probably shouldn't get combat training.

Having said that, though, there's nothing stopping a bison being given the appropriate tricks.

At low levels, mounts and animals can easily be as tough as a PC. They can make encounters trivially easy. Since the game has at least some expectation that adventuring will partially take place in locations where mounts cannot effectively be used, it is not balanced around their use. By about 4th level, normal animals (by which I mean ones that aren't Animal Companions or Familiars) are actually a potential detriment to a party that isn't careful with them.

So, I'd say enjoy it while you can. It won't last.

[Drejk]

Bison is a dangerous beast. That's why it can be conjured with a summon monster IV spell - showing that it was intended to be used around 7th level. Apparent problem lies with its very low price placing it into reach of 1st level players and lack of increased DC for Handle Animal checks.

[David_Bross]

Where are you finding information telling you that a Bison uses the stats of a Yak or costs 24 gp?

EDIT: I see this is from the Ultimate Equipment, which was last updated July 2012. The Animal Archive is from December 2012, but they are different entries, so I suppose you could purchase a Yak, which is a reskinned Bison, for even cheaper.
The Animal Archives puts the cost at 50 gp, or 75 gp for a combat trained version.

As far as game wrecking, yes, surprisingly a CR 4 creature is overpowered for 75 gp, even using a move action to get it to perform tricks it knows, and a full round action to push it.

As far as PFS, yes, this is a known issue, and sadly its making it look like they'll have to ban PCs from animals if they don't have them via a class feature, because some members of the community can't moderate themselves. I'm very happy to hear that you moderated yourself after seeing its effect on gameplay.

[Drachasor]

Yes, if you buy a Bison, only use it for moving things. It has 27 strength and crazy stats for a 24gp animal.

Sothoth, my wizard's Yak, shall never be used for combat, especially for this reason. Yaks are meant to let you take folding tables, chairs, tea sets, waffle irons, etc, etc, wherever you go.

[Kazumetsa Raijin]

Holy &%$!. Yeah, that is almost as powerful as two extra players in the game! I could see how it could easily roflstomp things levels 1-4.

[Nefreet]

There's a similar thread on this over in the PFS forum, too. It has many more posts, if you want to get PFS players' opinions on the matter.