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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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Did a quick forum search didn't see an answer.
I have a (future) Dragon Disciple and at lvl 3 intend to take Eldritch Heritage. I am thinking I will take either Serpentine or Abyssal to get either the fangs or more claws. However I'm not sure how it works.
The descriptions say "As a free action, grow claws/teeth"
Let's say I have 2 levels in DD and can grow fangs to bite with. It makes sense for me that the Serpentine ability lets me then grow an additional set of fangs in my mouth that deals additional damage and poisons.
But say I take Abyssal. Since I only have 2 arms it wouldn't make sense if I could combine Draconic and Abyssal claws and suddenly grow 4 claws total.
Is there an actual ruling somewhere that governs all these multiple free actions working together? Or do I just exercise my common sense as described above?
Don't think that you could use both claws at once, but if you ran out of one duration, you could switch to the other claw duration. I'd go with bite though, because of poison. Also, if you want all three, look into crossblooded archetype. Or you could take 2 levels of alchemist and extra discovery feat for 2 vestigial arms.
That's what I would guess but if I have to argue with my DM about it, I need an official ruling to back it up. If I don't hear anything more substantial soon I will hit the faq button and hopefully get an answer.
I don't have an official ruling. But if you have four arms, and you can grow claws, I'd argue that you can either use both at once (Because you can have as many free actions as you like within DM restriction) or you can have 4 claws naturally If you have 2 arms, you can't use four claws (ask GM, he may rule differently). If you run out of duration on one, they are separate abilities, so you will be able to use the others duration. At high levels, Abyssal claws and Draconic claws are different, therefor have their own duration.
Strictly speaking, claws grow on arms and occupy the parts of the arm the hands normally go. You can't grow claws on your elbows nor can you grow two claws from each wrist (or, if you could, you can only use one claw on a given limb at a time anyway). For bi-pedal creatures, Talons, not claws, go on the feet. Quadrapeds such as big cats can and do have claws on all 4 legs, but only the front two are useable for normal attacks. The back claws are represented by the Rake ability which lets you do damage when you pounce or grapple. I'd say a good compromise is to spread that rule to cover your situation; you can grow claws on your feet but only use them by pouncing or grappling.
Kazaan wrote: Strictly speaking, claws grow on arms and occupy the parts of the arm the hands normally go. You can't grow claws on your elbows nor can you grow two claws from each wrist (or, if you could, you can only use one claw on a given limb at a time anyway). For bi-pedal creatures, Talons, not claws, go on the feet. Quadrapeds such as big cats can and do have claws on all 4 legs, but only the front two are useable for normal attacks. The back claws are represented by the Rake ability which lets you do damage when you pounce or grapple. I'd say a good compromise is to spread that rule to cover your situation; you can grow claws on your feet but only use them by pouncing or grappling. Yeah I'm starting to see a consensus about the claws.
The question of multiple fangs for a bite attack is still open though. I personally don't see any problem with a sorceror growing two sets of fangs simultaneously (just combine their damage into a single bite attack) but ya never know that might break some rule or the other.
Multiple Fangs wouldn't be valid by the same token as two claws on the end of the same limb don't let you swing once and get the damage of both claws. Think of it this way; you can't take a Spiked Gauntlet and put double the spikes on it to double the damage, mechanically speaking. Likewise, you can't have two sets of fangs in your mouth and use both on the same attack.
Seems like you would do the same bite damage with 2 as you would with one. The difference will be the poison and any other variation in the 2 bite attacks.
Try searching James Jacobs' and Sean K Reynolds' post histories for 'claw arm foot' maybe also with 'talon' or 'hand' instead of 'arm' or something like that. I'm certain it's already been commented on.
You can't have multiple bite attacks unless you have multiple heads, or something wierd like bite attacks from your torso.
It's not a matter 'growing extra set of fangs', bite does not depend on 'one' set of 'fangs', it is a bite of a mouth,
doesn't matter how many sharp teeth you have in that mouth, you can make one bite attack with one moutk, if you already have mouth-bite attack, having another source grant one doesn't give you an additional one. ON their own, there is no reason to 'pay for' (use limited round/day) to have two Bite attacks simultaneously, but you should be able to choose the most advantageous one (not picking the best features from both and merging them, but picking which entire package you prefer) and if one of the Bites 'comes with' some other feature, like Claws that you also want to use, then it could be desirable (if inefficient use of rounds/day) to activate both simultaneously. If you want to visualize that at using different teeth to do different types of Bite attacks, that seems reasoble enough to me, you just can't use both Bite attacks in the same full attack. (you could use one for full attack and another for an Attack of Opportunity though)
The Dragon Disciple ability to add elemental damage on top of bite/claws only works with the bite/claws gained from Draconic BL/DD, not from other sources. So if you wanted to use a Poisonous Bite while using the Elemental Dragon Claws, the Poisonous Bite would not benefit from the Elemental stuff.
As mentioned, you can otherwise be using these for extra duration, which is a very good usage if you want to depend on this fighting style. Although there's other means to get Claws for your character, including permanent ones, e.g. Nat Wpn Ranger, not to mention DD eventually gets Dragon Form. Note that you're usually better off using your hands for manufactured weapons with better weapon stats like crit range. You can add on things like a Bite attack to weapon-based full attack, but you can't use Claws for the hands weilding a weapon or other object.
Otherwise, any limits on using Free Actions per round are explicitly left up to the GM, per the RAW.
Quandary wrote: Try searching James Jacobs' and Sean K Reynolds' post histories for 'claw arm foot' maybe also with 'talon' or 'hand' instead of 'arm' or something like that. I'm certain it's already been commented on.
You can't have multiple bite attacks unless you have multiple heads, or something wierd like bite attacks from your torso.
It's not a matter 'growing extra set of fangs', bite does not depend on 'one' set of 'fangs', it is a bite of a mouth,
doesn't matter how many sharp teeth you have in that mouth, you can make one bite attack with one moutk, if you already have mouth-bite attack, having another source grant one doesn't give you an additional one. ON their own, there is no reason to 'pay for' (use limited round/day) to have two Bite attacks simultaneously, but you should be able to choose the most advantageous one (not picking the best features from both and merging them, but picking which entire package you prefer) and if one of the Bites 'comes with' some other feature, like Claws that you also want to use, then it could be desirable (if inefficient use of rounds/day) to activate both simultaneously. If you want to visualize that at using different teeth to do different types of Bite attacks, that seems reasoble enough to me, you just can't use both Bite attacks in the same full attack. (you could use one for full attack and another for an Attack of Opportunity though)
The Dragon Disciple ability to add elemental damage on top of bite/claws only works with the bite/claws gained from Draconic BL/DD, not from other sources. So if you wanted to use a Poisonous Bite while using the Elemental Dragon Claws, the Poisonous Bite would not benefit from the Elemental stuff.
As mentioned, you can otherwise be using these for extra duration, which is a very good usage if you want to depend on this fighting style. Although there's other means to get Claws for your character, including permanent ones, e.g. Nat Wpn Ranger, not to mention DD eventually gets Dragon Form. Note that you're usually better off...
1) Can you tell me how to see all posts by one user? Can't seem to find the option...
2) Did they rule on fangs?
3) This is all moot because my sorceror (to-be-Dragon Disciple) just died permanently this evening ;_; sigh.
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