Steady Engagement

[Fromage10x]

Here is the quoted text on this feat;

Steady Engagement (Combat)

You can draw on your excellent balance to trip or disarm opponents when they try to disengage.

Prerequisites: Worshiper of Irori, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still.

Benefit: If you use the Stand Still feat to prevent an opponent from moving, you may make a disarm or trip combat maneuver against the target as an immediate action.

The question is, what does "use the Stand Still feat to prevent an opponent from moving" mean. Does it require SUCCESSFULLY using the feat, or just making the attempt?

[Avianfoo]

Unclear whether it triggers on the attempt or on a successful attempt. As written I would say on any attempt which effectively gives 2 chances of stopping someone from running away. But it sucks up your immediate/swift action for the following turn.

[ShadowcatX]

If you don't successfully use stand still, then you didn't use stand still to keep them from moving.

[DM_Blake]

I agree that it's unclear, but I see it the opposite way. The feat says "to prevent an opponent from moving" - this infinitive clause is absolutely an unnecessary waste of space if all they meant was "whenever you use the Stand Still feat". They already say that, including the rest can only mean that they included for a reason, to (try to) make it clear that you must actually prevent the opponent from moving.

Stand Still does nothing but stop their movement. They are unharmed and unaffected (except for being unable to move) and they can continue with their non-moving actions. Steady Engagement lets you trip or disarm them IF you prevent their movement. It doesn't let you make TWO combat maneuver checks to mess them up but rather it lets you make a second CMB to mess them up extra assuming the first CMB was successful.

It's like adding Greater Trip onto any trip attempt - you only get to make the AoO when the trip is successful, or adding Bleeding Critical onto critical hits - it only works when the critical hit is successful. Etc.

[Fromage10x]

Fair. I do agree that to prevent an opponent from moving would be unnecessary if they meant for it to be on any use of the feat, so that's probably what they intended. Just seems like it would actually make the feat worth it if it was the other way...it seems questionable to create a feat line that is nearly always just plain worse than tripping people.

[Tharkon]

Fromage10x wrote:

Fair. I do agree that to prevent an opponent from moving would be unnecessary if they meant for it to be on any use of the feat, so that's probably what they intended. Just seems like it would actually make the feat worth it if it was the other way...it seems questionable to create a feat line that is nearly always just plain worse than tripping people.

Indeed, you could just make a trip attempt in the first place, replace Stand Still and Steady Engagement with Improved Trip and Greater Trip and now your opponent is prone and you still have an attack of opportunity left to take. Although I guess that would require Int 13 and Combat Expertise. Anyway, my point was, you can use those feats for something else as long as you aren't facing a lot of oozes and snakes that can't be tripped.

[blahpers]

Anybody else wonder if this thread was going to be about Paizo's upcoming rules supplement, "Ultimate Relationships"?