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Why is there a second thread on this same issue now? I don't see why this wouldn't fall into the same ruling as all the Racial Heritage feat discussions that popped up when the ARG came out. If Additional Resources says you have to BE that race to qualify. "Counting as" that race doesn't quite get you there.
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Why is there a second thread on this same issue now?
Because he is of the camp that if he doesn't like the answer from one thread, starting a new one will surely get the answer he likes. If that doesn't work, he'll start typing in CAPS! WITH LOTS OF !!!!
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Because the other one has degenerated into an argument and I'd like to have a ruling and not an argument, which I don't really care to have.
I just want to know what the ruling is. There was a previous thread asking it a few months back and no response was given.
Not conjecture, not speculation, not opinion, just a simple ruling, up or down. No insults required Nebten, just a quick answer from the powers that be.
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Races: All human ethnicities are legal except Azlanti, humans begin play knowing all listed languages for their chosen ethnicity as racial languages
It says humans, not things that count as humans.
An Aasimar with two Ulfen parents is no more likely to know Skald then a half elf or half orc with one Ulfen parent. Half Elves, Half Orcs, and Scion of Humanity Aasimar are all Humanoid (Human) in addition to something else, but they are not humans and cannot select a human ethnicity.
Your Aasimar might be of Ulfen decent, but they are not Ulfen, they are Aasimar.
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It is unlikely you'll get the powers that be to answer this again.
Counting as human for the sake of things that target humans does not make one actually human. Does not allow one to make choices for your character that are inherently human.
If half-elves and half-orcs cannot choose an ethnicity, why would a scion of humanity Aasimar?
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If half-elves and half-orcs cannot choose an ethnicity, why would a scion of humanity Aasimar?
Because they are easily discernible as half-human?
A Scion of Humanity is a human. Not a half human, who has an elven or an orc parent, community, etc... that will teach them their other racial language.
A Scion of Humanity is the product of two human parents. You are not an ostracized member of the community, made to feel different or as an outsider. The call of the Heavens isn't strong enough to teach you the Celestial language either. You are for all intents and purposes just another human child in your little human village.
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If half-elves and half-orcs cannot choose an ethnicity, why would a scion of humanity Aasimar?Because they are easily discernible as half-human?
A Scion of Humanity is a human. Not a half human, who has an elven or an orc parent, community, etc... that will teach them their other racial language.
A Scion of Humanity is the product of two human parents. You are not an ostracized member of the community, made to feel different or as an outsider. The call of the Heavens isn't strong enough to teach you the Celestial language either. You are for all intents and purposes just another human child in your little human village.
No one is preventing you from playing that human. He can be as Ulfen as you like. He just happens to only get a +2 to one stat, no spell-like abilities, and no elemental resistances. He'll be as human as they come. But as long as you're playing an Aasimar, you're playing an Aasimar. No human can choose an Aasimar bloodline, and no Aasimar can choose a human ethnicity.
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The best answer I can give you is this Eric:
It makes sense from a roleplaying perspective (it also makes sense that a Half-Elf or Half-Orc who was raised by humans in a particular human village would be able to speak that regional or ethnic tongue).
But this is PFS. We must go strictly by the rules in cases like this.
In a home game, it would be easy for the GM (and I would do so myself depending on the player’s reasoning) to allow ethnicities for “half” races.
Because the Aasimar is not actually a human, it doesn’t matter what makes sense roleplaying wise.
They are an Aasimar, and get what the Aasimar write-up says they get. No clarification or official ruling need.
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A Scion of Humanity is a human.
Then why don't they age as humans? A Scion of Humanity Aasimar still has to be at least 64 years old too.
A Scion of Humanity is the product of two human parents.
All Golarion Aasimar have two human parents, not just those that have the Scion of Humanity trait, in fact, two Aasimar can even have a human child. But none of this matters, because they are not humans, they are Aasimar.
These things don't make sense from a RP standpoint, but they are the way the rules are written. Aasimar do not get human ethnic languages, and their human parents are almost always dead.
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Eric,
My understanding of this issue is as has been stated by others several times. That is the campaign management have decides that scion of humanity and related abilities (racial heritage more specifically) will not allow a member of one race to select race specific feats, talents, or spells as if they were the appropriate race.
I personally am of the belief they should function as such as I read them, but they have decided otherwise for their campaign, as is their perfectly legitimate right. It's probably more balanced this way, because otherwise?
Hello halfling feat cautious fighter on my not at all a halfling defensive monk crane wing build! -1 to hit for +8 dodge to AC? Yes please!
I believe this ruling is not in place to foil you specifically, or to foil flavour-based things that have inconsequential mechanics. It's in place to keep examples like the above from happening.
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Lormyr,
It isn't that Scion of Humanity or the Human Heritage feat won't allow you to choose feats and spells and such.
They just won't allow you to from the ARG.
True. I should have specified that ARG is simply where most of these things can be found. Many of the feats and such from the individual "race of golarion" books do not bear a racial pre-req as they do in the ARG.
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**Just for future reference**
IF you preface a post with all caps like you did and demand an official ruling to a corner case, you are guaranteed to be ignored. Paizo employees do not like being called out. Paizo employees don't troll the forums all day, they have other things to do too. So they pick and choose what to read/respond to.
The best way to get an answer is to start a discussion on the boards and be accepting of all comments. DON'T tell people to take their discussion elsewhere and that your thread is only for Paizo staff to respond to. If the developers/staff deem the issue important they may step in and give a ruling. If they don't, accept the majority opinion of the boards as it is usually right.
Alternatively, the FAQ system is specifically designed to handle this issue. However, Paizo relies upon the community to determine the importance of the FAQ, hence the displaying of FAQ clicks. If you create an FAQ and you get very few votes, it is probably because people don't think it's an issue and thus Paizo won't think it's an issue either.
Lastly, if you just can't move forward, ask your VC for a ruling. I did this when it came to how arcane bond upgrades work. The current FAQ on this issue is ambiguous and we have yet to get clarification. Just be prepared to do it the way your VC rules.
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I should be pretty obvious at this point that someone "official" will probably not weigh in. But, you have had Venture Officers and 5 star GM's give you their thoughts. I think you have your answer.
Perhaps you should try a different tact and explain what it is you are trying to accomplish. Sense Motive +1 and it's a class skill? There are other traits that give you that. Suspicious is one social trait that does it. Narrows Survivior from the Taldor book does the same thing AND gives you a +1 to Initiative. Take a rank in Linguistics to gain Ulfen and say your the child of one the Ulfen Guard.
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It's pretty poor form to start a discussion and then dismiss disagreement stating you don't want a debate. The two terms (discussion and debate) are almost synonomous. That said, PFS rules are more strict than rules in a home game. You can't expect an official answer on every corner case that pops up. That's what these forums are for. I'm in the camp that it would be allowed in my home games but the PFS rules quite clearly prohibit it as others have pointed out. Interpretations backed up by rules quotes should be acceptable to most people (they're acceptable to me).
