I am still quite a newbie when it comes to tabletop RPGs and I want to make sure I am running my Summoner properly according to RAW. While searching the forums I noticed a lot of comments about how most Eidolons are built improperly as well. Sorry ahead of time for the length of the post. (I did search for a bunch of this stuff, but a lot of times I couldn't follow what was being talked about as a lot of acronyms were being used I didn't know or they were talking way above the level I am asking (I had to look up what RAW was as well!))
Level 1 starting character, selected Extra Evolution as my feat choice and quadruped as Eidolon base.
Eidolon Build:
* Limbs (Legs) x 2 (Included in base)
* Bite (Included in base)
* Clawed Feet (Cost 1)
* Pounce (Cost 1)
* Improved Natural Armor (Cost 1)
* Improved Damage (Cost 1)
Assuming I did that correct, my Eidolon has 14 str, 14 dex, 13 con, 7 int, 10 wis, 11 cha, 16 ac, +4 initiative, 1 bab, +3 fort, +4 ref, +0 will.
For his attacks (And since I have more than one primary attack it doesn't get the 1-1/2 str bonus correct?)
1x bite at attack bonus of +3, 1d6+2 dmg
2x claw at attack bonus of +3, 1d6+2 dmg
I selected power attack for his feat, on power attack this changes the attacks too (Again, I don't get the extra 50% bonus increase because there are multiple primary attacks?)
1x bite at attack bonus of +2, 1d6+4 dmg
2x claw at attack bonus of +2, 1d6+4 dmg
If I pounce my attack changes to
1x bite at attack bonus of +5, 1d6+2 dmg
2x claw at attack bonus of +5, 1d6+2 dmg
And if I combine my pounce and power attack (with a -2 to ac until next round)
1x bite at attack bonus of +4, 1d6+4 dmg
2x claw at attack bonus of +4, 1d6+4 dmg
Is that all correct? And I only get the 3 attacks (max 3 due to Eidolon restrictions at lvl 1) when I do a full round attack otherwise I would have to pick 1 of the 3? And if I am near to enemies can I split the attacks between them? (IE: Can I bite goblin 1, and claw twice at goblin 2)
Now with regards to my Summoner.
I know 4 level 0 and 2 level 1 spells from this list (Summon Spells) at level 1, but only can cast 1 per day? And these are permanent choices I can't change later? There is no limit on casting the level 0 ones correct?
If I have a Charisma of between 12 and 19 I can cast 1 extra level 1 spell per day or 2 if I hit 20 (which would be a max roll of 18 + a racial mod of +2 for Charisma at lvl 1).
Let's imagine I get lucky and get an 18 and racial mod +2 can I cast only the 2 level 1 spells I know once each, or can I cast them multiple times in any combination up to the 3 per day I would have at that point?
And I think finally, at least for now, what the heck is my DC on casting these spells? Does it differ if I target allies/enemies? I can't seem to find where it says what my DC is.
Thanks for any answers you can give me!
The Eidolon seems pretty good, though I'm not entirely sure about attacking more than one target with a pounce. That is a good question.
As for spell casting, you can change what spells you know at 5th level and every thrid level thereafter. The number of spells per day that can be cast are selected from the spells you know, in the example above you can cast 3 spells per day, selected from all of the 1st level spells you know. There are be no limit to the number of 0 level spells you can cast per day, you are just limited in how many spells you know.
As for the DC for casting a spell, you have this backwards for the most part. Very few spells, it may be none but I'm playing it safe here, require a check to successfully cast. Several require attacks role to take affect, or similar things. The DC I believe you refering to is the save DC that a target much beat to avoid the spell effect. This is a simple formula, it is 10 + spell level + Charisma modifier (or intelligence for wizards and witches, wisdom for clerics and druids).
Hope this helps.
J Scot Shady wrote: The Eidolon seems pretty good, though I'm not entirely sure about attacking more than one target with a pounce. That is a good question. What about on a regular full-round attack without pounce?
J Scot Shady wrote: As for spell casting, you can change what spells you know at 5th level and every thrid level thereafter. The number of spells per day that can be cast are selected from the spells you know, in the example above you can cast 3 spells per day, selected from all of the 1st level spells you know. There are be no limit to the number of 0 level spells you can cast per day, you are just limited in how many spells you know. Thank you, that clears it up for me.
J Scot Shady wrote: As for the DC for casting a spell, you have this backwards for the most part. Very few spells, it may be none but I'm playing it safe here, require a check to successfully cast. Several require attacks role to take affect, or similar things. The DC I believe you referring to is the save DC that a target much beat to avoid the spell effect. This is a simple formula, it is 10 + spell level + Charisma modifier (or intelligence for wizards and witches, wisdom for clerics and druids).
Hope this helps.
Awesome, thanks!
Everything I see is correct, except perhaps your Eidolon's initiative. Since it's dexterity is 14, it should have a +2 to initiative, unless you have a separate source for an additional +2.
Your spell DCs are 10+spell level+cha modifier. Unless you are required to roll a concentration check, a spell resistance check, or some form of touch attack, you do not need to roll any die to cast a spell, the target does.
When full attacking with your eidolon you may pick targets however you like as you attack. 1 bite here, 2 claws there, whatever. You may even take a 5 foot step between attacks (not pouncing). RAW I believe you may attack multiple targets with pounce, but some DMs may rule otherwise as it could be illogical depending on the circumstances.
Spells per day: Most likely you will receive at least 1 bonus spell per day at level 1. You may allocate them completely freely within the spell level. eg (3 spells per day) 3 of one spell, 2 of a single spell one of another.
Edit:Typo
Beopere wrote: Everything I see is correct, except perhaps your Eidolon's initiative. Since it's dexterity is 14, it should have a +2 to initiative, unless you have a separate source for an additional +2. Yes, I had selected Reactionary as a trait which gives +2 to initiative.
Beopere wrote: Your spell DCs are 10+spell level+cha modifier. Unless you are required to roll a concentration check, a spell resistance check, or some form of touch attack, you do not need to roll any die to cast a spell, the target does. Yea, I had seen the concentration modifiers, but hadn't seen any 'base' check value. You and J Scot Shady cleared that up for me.
Beopere wrote: When full attacking with your eidolon you may pick targets however you like as you attack. 1 bite here, 2 claws there, whatever. You may even take a 5 foot step between attacks (not pouncing). RAW I believe you may attack multiple targets with pounce, but some DMs may rule otherwise as it could be illogical depending on the circumstances. Thanks for that clarification, one more question here though, on a non full round attack, do I only attack with one of my natural weapons? or do all 3 still go off?
Thanks Beopere!
If you make an attack as a standard action you would make a single attack (any of your choice) with normal modifiers for attack and damage. This will be the case when you need to close distance with an enemy but cannot charge.
Also your character selects reactionary which helps his initiative, not his eidolon's. There is a feat which allows you to pick more traits, which your eidolon might take, but otherwise I do not believe it can choose traits, as per RAW. Perhaps I am mistaken.
Check out the advice section right at the top
Beopere wrote: If you make an attack as a standard action you would make a single attack (any of your choice) with normal modifiers for attack and damage. This will be the case when you need to close distance with an enemy but cannot charge. That is what I thought, thanks.
Beopere wrote: Also your character selects reactionary which helps his initiative, not his eidolon's. There is a feat which allows you to pick more traits, which your eidolon might take, but otherwise I do not believe it can choose traits, as per RAW. Perhaps I am mistaken. I made an assumption an Eidolon gets 2 traits like a PC does. The traits section says, Character traits are only for player characters. If you want an NPC to have traits, that NPC must “buy” them with the Additional Traits feat. Is an Eidolon an NPC, PC, I don't know how familiars, animal companions, and eidolons that are controlled by the player are classified.
As far as I know, only your summoner counts as a PC. Animal companions, mounts, familiars and eidolons are not player characters.
Eidolons don't get traits. Sorry.
There is a discussion on if they can take the additional traits feat, but right now the better view is to assume they can't.
Otherwise this is a pretty standard pouncing eidolon. It works well and is standard for good reason. Welcome to the art of summoning. Try not to acidentally bring on the apocalypse :)
Esquin wrote: Eidolons don't get traits. Sorry.
There is a discussion on if they can take the additional traits feat, but right now the better view is to assume they can't.
Otherwise this is a pretty standard pouncing eidolon. It works well and is standard for good reason. Welcome to the art of summoning. Try not to accidentally bring on the apocalypse :)
Thanks for the info! We have had one session so far and that prompted me to double check things in my build. I would really like to look at making a grappling eidolon but I think I'll wait until I learn more about combat before I try.
pounce wrote: Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability). Restrictions on charging on how you move, not how you attack.
charge wrote: You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent.
I would allow attacks against adjacent targets as long as the first (or at least one) is against the target you were actually charging. The alternative is that all attacks may only be against the charge target, and if that target drops after one attack the rest of the attacks are wasted. Does anyone play this way?
Avianfoo wrote: I would allow attacks against adjacent targets as long as the first (or at least one) is against the target you were actually charging. The alternative is that all attacks may only be against the charge target, and if that target drops after one attack the rest of the attacks are wasted. Does anyone play this way? We played that I could only attack my charged target, and I wasted any attacks if I dropped the target before I used all 3. Flavor wise it made sense but we couldn't find anything in the rules to go either way.
Nodlehs wrote: We played that I could only attack my charged target, and I wasted any attacks if I dropped the target before I used all 3. Flavor wise it made sense but we couldn't find anything in the rules to go either way. It is a GM call. I am a bit more lenient, but as you say, there is no RAW ruling either way.
The problem that I see is that charge is only meant to have one attack according to RAW (the opponent you are charging), the pounce ability is just piggy backing the mechanics for movement and attack bonus then gives you a full round attack action. I think it would have been better to make pounce without even referencing charge to reduce ambiguity. I think I'll go with the no attacking other targets during a pounce as the opponent your charging is your attack target on a charge. It seems kinda silly to make a full out charge putting all your energy into attacking this one opponent, then stop after he drops and calmly face a different direction ignoring your momentum and poke another guy.
Remember that there is no "facing" in Pathfinder. As Avianfro says, a lenient GM would probably allow you to change opponents on a pounce. The pounce evolution allows the eidolon to make a full attack after a charge, and a full attack can target multiple creatures.
The other argument is that one can normally take a 5' step during a full attack, but one cannot take a 5' step after charging. Therefore, the "full attack" allowed by the pounce evolution is not quite the same as a normal full attack.
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