| Demjing "The Mage Breaker" |
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Hello,
I have read Ghost touch, Incorporeal, and Spectral Hand through multiple times. I have searched all of the forums multiple times and read a plethora of ghost touch and spectral hand entries with replies. After all that I don't think this specific concern has been addressed. I'm looking for hopefully either a Paizo Dev to chime in at some point or someone to point me to a post that settles the questions i have.
1) Is this a spell that attacks a creature or does the spell effect allow a creature to be attacked?
I read spectral hand as a spell that creates a ghostly "incorporeal" hand that can move about and "allows" for touch attacks to be made at range.
As I read it: This to me is not a spell that attacks but rather creates a hand that allows for an attack to be preformed as a byproduct of the fact that it is made from the caster's life force. This alters an adverse condition that would prevent the touch spell from striking, this condition in particular is "out of range". Similar to the light spell in a completely dark dungeon (darkness) allows the caster to attack foes that would otherwise have had 100% concealment.
This is important for qualifying for an Advance Race Guide option: "spell like ability" = Benefit: Choose a 2nd-level or lower spell that does not attack a creature or deal damage...
2) Can the spectral hand puck up and attack with ghost touch weapons at range?
As I read it: The hand is ghostly, and incorporeal, and manifest out of the caster's HP. This is almost perfectly directed at the ghost touch property. It does not return to the caster's side unless it delivers a spell. It can be directed as the caster wishes. It is made from the caster's life force so has HP and to my understanding from other forum posts will use the caster's STR mod to attack and in this case damage. It states that attacks made with the hand count normally as attacks. Full attacks can be made with 1 hand.
Put all of this together and a character with ghost touch can as if wielding a ghost touch weapon normally, make a single or full attack action at the range determined by the spectral hand spell, without the normal +2 to hit that the spell grants because it is not making a touch attack.
3) Can spectral hand be cast a second time without dispelling the first spectral hand?
As i Read the spell: The spell spectral hand unlike light does not specify that it may only have 1 instance of it's casting.
If a character had the Two Weapon Fighting Feats, Flurry, or Multi-Attack then they could cast this spell again within the duration of the first spell pickup a second weapon in their off hand and apply these feats as normal to the full attack option that they may apply as normal to the normal attacks made by the spectral hand. Granted 1) and 2) above also hold true.
Please clarify as being able to make full attacks with flurry or TWF at longbow range can already be done by the Zen archer Arch-type for the monk. This does not sound to unfeasible as a fighter would have to have a good spell caster willing to give up a spell for them, or train up use magic device plus get a wand and then they would also have to spend the loot to enchant the weapons with ghost touch. The balancing factor is that it costs a +1 weapon enchantment on 2 weapons, and RP for a race, a spell for a wizard, skill points for a fighter, or an Arch-type for a monk to all do about the same thing, multiple attacks at range 100ft+
It seems applicable to me, I really don't any rules conflicts in the logic. Nor does it seem too broken as a Zen archer can already pretty much just do it (albeit using ranged attacks and dexterity/wisdom to hit).
Really hoping for a Dev to say yes that would work RAW, or no it doesn't work because of this "FAQ, Errata, Rule pgXX, etc."
| Demjing "The Mage Breaker" |
Adding d20pfsrd quotes to assist in the discussion:
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Ghost Touch
Price +1 bonus
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Weight —
DESCRIPTION
A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature's 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, plane shift; Cost +1 bonus
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Spectral Hand
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 2, witch 2
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect one spectral hand
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
DESCRIPTION
A ghostly hand shaped from your life force materializes and moves as you desire, allowing you to deliver low-level, touch range spells at a distance. On casting the spell, you lose 1d4 hit points that return when the spell ends (even if it is dispelled), but not if the hand is destroyed. (The hit points can be healed as normal.) For as long as the spell lasts, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand. The spell gives you a +2 bonus on your melee touch attack roll, and attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack. The hand always strikes from your direction. The hand cannot flank targets like a creature can. After it delivers a spell, or if it goes beyond the spell range or goes out of your sight, the hand returns to you and hovers.
The hand is incorporeal and thus cannot be harmed by normal weapons. It has improved evasion (half damage on a failed Reflex save and no damage on a successful save), your save bonuses, and an AC of 22 (+8 size, +4 natural armor). Your Intelligence modifier applies to the hand's AC as if it were the hand's Dexterity modifier. The hand has 1 to 4 hit points, the same number that you lost in creating it.
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Incorporeal (Ex)
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).
An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.
An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.
An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Perception checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.