Illusionary creatures (figments) and interaction in combat


Rules Questions

Sczarni

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Okay well, my main question is quite simple.

I have illusionary creature who can make a sound or two even and I concentrate on him whole time to keep him moving.

Every interaction, meaning every attack gives the attacker a Will save to disbelieve it. Am I correct with this?

Played a scenario tonight at PFS and GM's mooks had trouble seeing through the illusion altho I did point out that they can switch targets eventually when they notice that creature is "useless".

Grand Lodge

Each attack against the illusion is an interaction and allows another Will save. If the illusion appears to attack and miss, I wouldn't say it's interacted with the opponent, though if a dangerous-looking creature never seems to succeed, many combatants might find that suspicious.

Sczarni

Bump for more responses. Seems I always ask the hardest question on boards :)

@Starglim
So when would combatants find it suspicious? An attack from illusion that hits but deals no damage?
For info, I usually keep illusion of medium sized human.


Illusions can only be disbelieved when the spell has a will save for that purpose. As an example mirror image is a figment but it can not be disbelieved. Illusion spells that do rely on will saves will have table variance. There are no rules to determine the attack bonus of a figment so I would just rule the attack does not count as interaction. Howeved if the illusion is attacked I would count that as interaction.


So, can you provide flanking to your rogue buddy with an illusion (figment) of a medium-sized combatant?


There's a module where the party is attacked by illusions of Orc Warriors from a higher level wizard who is pulling a prank on them. The module has the illusions using the stats of the Bestiary standard Orc and dealing damage to anyone who fails their save and passing out if knocked down to negative HP, the damage goes away when they make their save or the spell ends.


Reshar wrote:
So, can you provide flanking to your rogue buddy with an illusion (figment) of a medium-sized combatant?

By RAW flanking rules, no. Real threatening opponents give flanking, even if the enemy is unaware of them. Illusions give no flanking, even if the enemy believes they are real.

Some GMs will houserule this.

Sczarni

Okay, that's all I needed to hear mostly. Just making sure to explain to any future GM at PFS what to expect to reduce the table variance and that I got everything right.

Thanks to everyone

P.S. @Reshar
You can grant flanking with Threatening Illusion metamagic feat which does exactly that.


Ninja in the Rye wrote:
There's a module where the party is attacked by illusions of Orc Warriors from a higher level wizard who is pulling a prank on them. The module has the illusions using the stats of the Bestiary standard Orc and dealing damage to anyone who fails their save and passing out if knocked down to negative HP, the damage goes away when they make their save or the spell ends.

I dislike that module simply because its breaking the rules, and the author does not say he is using the "rule of cool" to make a good story.

Grand Lodge

Malag wrote:

Bump for more responses. Seems I always ask the hardest question on boards :)

@Starglim
So when would combatants find it suspicious? An attack from illusion that hits but deals no damage?
For info, I usually keep illusion of medium sized human.

An attack that appears to hit would be an interaction.

An appropriate Knowledge check after 2 or 3 rounds might suggest to a character "it really should be able to hit you". Humans are trickier, because their presumed effectiveness depends on class levels and, to a lesser extent, magic items. A character might be able to make a Sense Motive check to discern that the attacker could be missing deliberately.

More likely a player will figure this out, so I'm more saying that his acting on it or mentioning it to others could be justified by in-character knowledge. It doesn't constitute proof or interaction with the illusion, so will neither bypass nor assist a saving throw.

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