So my PC's are currently in Scarwall and are about to find the sword Serithtial. However after a near TPK they decided to go back to Korvosa to start a church in the name of "No particular deity" (A running joke between us) and meet up with the rebels. They know the information from the first handful of pages of AP 12 "Crown of Fangs" including the list of their duties. The PC's however have decided that they might want to join Ileosa in her conquest. If they deiced to do this in a session or two then I have stated I"m going to need at least a week off to write up stat blocks for their new "enemies".
I was thinking that if they do decide to side with the queen I would just change a few things. First I would have Field Marshall Kresida deal with Sabina and have her take Sabina to the side of good and then just make state blocks for the members of the rebellion equal to the current enemies in the campaign and have them fight them as well as Creating a dungeon for the rebel alliance.
There is also a possibility however that the Queen won't accept them on her team. One of the PC's really wants to kill the black dragon and they also kind of want to take out the new vigilante as well. IF they do either or both of those things then I'm going to say that sorry I won't take you in now die because they were killing her forces...Her important ones that is.
I'm thinking that after they learn of what she's trying to do they will decide to kill the queen as well because of their reasoning behind wanting to side with the queen (liking her laws and such but they wouldn't like the end game plan.). I would then make the queen a little cooler than she currently is so that they have a challenging BBEG and will still get to finish out the campaign the way it was written.
Has anyone had any experience with PC's wanting to do this sort of thing in their CotCT game? does anyone have any suggestions as to anything else I should do? This was mentioned yesterday and they have a good session or two before they have to make a decision and then I would get my week off so I've got about 3 weeks to determine how to do this.
No experience with this sort of thing. However, I am quite certain Serithtial will not go along with it. If I remember correctly the sword is aligned LG. An interesting play would be is the Cressida does redeem Sabrina would be to have the sword in her hand in an end game. Sabrina may also bring some Gray Maidens with her. If I remember correctly she "personally" inspired several of the maidens.
No experience with this sort of thing. However, I am quite certain Serithtial will not go along with it. If I remember correctly the sword is aligned LG. An interesting play would be is the Cressida does redeem Sabrina would be to have the sword in her hand in an end game. Sabrina may also bring some Gray Maidens with her. If I remember correctly she "personally" inspired several of the maidens.
You're right that Serithtial wouldn't go along with it but if they put it in a bag of holding or their portable hole then they can't be influenced by it. Plus it's ego score isn't that high so it'd be a non issue getting it in the bad or hole. I think the sword is CG but that's a negligible difference. I don't see how the field marshell would get her hands on Serithtial however.
And you're correct about Sabina taking some Maidens with her that would happen as well when she returns to the side of "good".
So how understanding are the players when it comes to consequences for their actions? Also, would they get upset if the SUPER EVIL queen ultimately decided to suffer no rivals (and the PCs are certainly rivals)? Because I see almost no way the Queen welcomes them with open arms, and really almost no way that the PCs can survive an alliance with her all the way to a peaceful conclusion where they rule Korvosa and Ileosa is off being omnipotent and immortal someplace else.
That said, with the right group this could be a lot of fun.
Seeing as how the players were undoubtedly a thorn in Ileosa's side previously (like curing the plague, for example). She will not trust the PCs to help her, believing that it is a scheme to get close and betray her. A symbol of loyalty like, say, a drop of blood from each PC, might be necessary to convince her.
Then they can help Ileosa win and hasten their own doom. Or, they can try to figure out what the blood is for and find out that they have been tricked and then proceed with the adventure as planned (after which they will almost certainly not be welcome in Korvosa).
Keep in mind that nobody in Ileosa's circle knows the extent of Ileosa's plans. The PCs would likely be working with simulacrums and devil servants--and with only some of the information. The only way they will find out about the Sunken Queen is from Togomor (who won't give this up) or by snooping around the castle (obviously an act of betrayal--prepare for mental domination or death).
Walter is correct that Serithtial is an intelligent, good-aligned weapon with a vendetta against Zon-Kuthonites like Ileosa. There is no possible way that this weapon would go along with any plan that doesn't involve destroying the Crown of Fangs and will try to force the character into giving the sword to a worthy wielder.
As for stats, if you happen to have a copy of the NPC Codex it should be easy to throw together some CR appropriate rebels.
I'll make a note of any fight-the-rebellion ideas I get over the next three weeks. If any of them aren't terrible I'll post them here.
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If you players seriously want to side with the queen, I regret to inform you you chose the wrong AP :(
Curse of the Crimson Throne is all about the PCs saving Korvosa. It's the story of how the queen succumbed to evil and nearly killed the city your PCs are supposed to love. It's a story of a taint that lurked behind the lines of Korvosa's history since before it was even fully built. Ultimately, it's about how a city can prevail anything, as long as the will of it's citizens stands.
How could your players possibly want to side with the queen? Really I normally don't do "you are playing it wrong" posts, but seriously, you are playing it wrong. I find the mere idea upsetting. Which is why I'll propose an idea which in my opinion can still salvage the AP.
Have the PCs lose. It's the only option. Have them side with the queen, and have the rebels come up with something to destroy both Ileosa and the PCs - a Shoanti invasion could do the trick, for example, as could Ileosa loosing her cool and trying to betray the PCs at a crucial moment. Have the players find out the real massage of this story - and punish them for being the bad guys.
Then, buy the first adventure of "Way of the Wicked" - maybe that will cater to your players idea of fun better :)
If you players seriously want to side with the queen, I regret to inform you you chose the wrong AP :(
Curse of the Crimson Throne is all about the PCs saving Korvosa. It's the story of how the queen succumbed to evil and nearly killed the city your PCs are supposed to love. It's a story of a taint that lurked behind the lines of Korvosa's history since before it was even fully built. Ultimately, it's about how a city can prevail anything, as long as the will of it's citizens stands.How could your players possibly want to side with the queen? Really I normally don't do "you are playing it wrong" posts, but seriously, you are playing it wrong. I find the mere idea upsetting. Which is why I'll propose an idea which in my opinion can still salvage the AP.
Have the PCs lose. It's the only option. Have them side with the queen, and have the rebels come up with something to destroy both Ileosa and the PCs - a Shoanti invasion could do the trick, for example, as could Ileosa loosing her cool and trying to betray the PCs at a crucial moment. Have the players find out the real massage of this story - and punish them for being the bad guys.
Then, buy the first adventure of "Way of the Wicked" - maybe that will cater to your players idea of fun better :)
The players for various flavor reasons have decided to side with Queen. In my opinion as a DM it is your job to adjust your game to the wants of the PC's. If they want to side with the queen and their reason makes sense (it does) I'm going to make the game what they want I view the DM as ones who lays out the story frame work but the PC's are the ones who right the epic script.
Also I appreciate the suggestion but we're already rolling PC's for "Way of the Wicked" for a secondary campaign to run.
So, your players want to side with the queen and you want to play along. There should be a lot of adventure in this, so roll with it.
Of course the queen won't trust the PCs right away, so they'll have to prove themselves. And even so, the queen will only see the PCs as tools, useful tools, but tools nonetheless.
To prove their worth, the PCs will have to do missions for the queen, for example:
- take out Blackjack;
- root out the rebellion (including the temple of Pharasma and any new sympathizers);
- improve the popularity of the queen;
- there will certainly be some rivalry with Sabina Merrin, who might become a rebel (as suggested by other posters and in the actual AP);
- stop the invading Shoanti army. I can imagine the queen sending off the PCs with the remaining Korvosan guards, an army way too small to stop the barbarians. The night before the battle, the PCs are approached by a contract devil who offers them an army of devils to defeat the Shoanti, if they sell their souls;
- she might even send out the PCs to look for more of Kazavon's relics.
Eventually the queen might tire of the PCs and try to harvest their blood for her immortality ritual ...
Given how the PC's basically have double the level of all the rebels in the city, siding with the queen should be pathetically easy. In the end it will come down to if the queen and her hanger-ons will accept the PC's as new allies or if there will be a confrontation between some of them and the party.
I'll be honest, I kind of agree with Lord Snow. This campaign isn't really made for an evil party. Considering that the ultimate goal of Ileosa is to be immortal and she will wipe out most of the cities population to do so, I don't see what benefit even an evil party is getting out of this. Being minions for super-Ileosa/Kazavon really is not all that exciting.
I also wonder how the unaffiliated high-level NPC's which hang around the city ( Toff Ornelos. Lorthact! ) will react to this. Not even to mention that such spilling of blood may help awaken that certain powerful lady which is resting deep beneath Castle Korvosa...
If they are so stupid as to side with the Queen, then I would have the Queen meet with them and setup a death trap of consolidated forces and let them have the fight of their lives. They would most likely die.
Either that or the Queen is already at the Sunken Queen doing her thing, in which case it's impossible to side with her at that point.
Assuming they still own Zellara's Harrow deck, Zellara could predict the (bleak) future for them and perhaps guide them away from this course of action. If they decide to proceed anyway, she could even covertly try to sabotage their efforts (like she did against Lamm!) by talking to forces that could wipe them out, or at least pick away at them one chunk at a time.
Keep in mind that a NPC like Kroft will see their betrayal coming a mile away. She (and allies) should act accordingly.
Knick and MrVergee,
Thanks for the suggestions I'll be sure to keep them in mind. And I know that Serithtial won't go along with it but if they can beat it's ego score (which is really small) they can give it to the queen or something.
I really like the idea of a list from the queen too.
And since some people seem to not remember this the PC's don't know about the Queen's plans yet only that she's trying to put the town under marshal law. My PC's want that to happen because of their fluff if they want to side with the queen because that's what their characters would do IRL I don't see how that makes them stupid or why it would warrant a TPK for not doing what I/the AP expects them to do.
Please elaborate on how RPing their PC's correctly means I should kill them and makes them stupid because I don't see it I view that as them being good PC's.
I would allow the PC's to think they are working with her all the while she is luring them into deathtrap after deathtrap until they are dead or they decide to get back to fighting for the intended side.
Either that or I would force all the PC's to allow her to charm them and put a Geas on them to garuntee their loyalty. If they allow it, I then tell them to make new characters as their old ones are now Evil NPC thralls to the queen who have lost all independent will and thought.
Please elaborate on how RPing their PC's correctly means I should kill them and makes them stupid because I don't see it I view that as them being good PC's.
I think I never said that the PC's are stupid in their decisions, although I think there are enough clues to surmise that Ileosa is bad news. Unless I remember incorrectly, the PC's should already know that Ileosa is somehow bound to Kazavon and exploring Scarwall should give ample evidence that Kazavon was a maniac. But if your players still think they should ally with Ileosa, go ahead.
What I actually did point out were the repercussions of an alliance between the PC's and Ileosa, be they from Ileosa and her allies or other groups in and under the city. Since ( as I also pointed out ) squashing the rebellion will take the PC's about ten minutes, either the AP is over after that, or you find something else for them to do. Unless you really want to finish on "And then your characters were minions for an immortal Ileosa and Korvosa was left a destroyed city". Then be my guest.
Will Pratt, you'll have to excuse all of us from harping on your players. I think that every single campaign journal of CotCT that I've ever read, and from the experiences in my own game, the PC's universally have a long, deep hatred against the queen and her minions. So much in fact that joining her would be unthinkable.
That being said, this seems like a cool turn of events for your game. Run with it!
As far as what should happen next? It all depends on what you think would be a satisfying ending to your long campaign. If you're pretty sure they want to go all the way in helping the queen, here's my take.
The rebels have not been idle. Sabina Merrin has killed Zarmangaroff and defected. Later she leads a group of rebels to Longacre Building and frees a huge contingent of Grey Maiden recruits who are not loyal to the queen. Blackjack kills Trifaccia in public and delivers a blow to the morale of the monarchy.
When approached and asked to join her cause, Illesoa demands the PC's prove their loyalty by performing the following tasks:
1). Blackjack, "hero of the people", has been fighting our forces in the streets and rallying people to the rebel cause. Eliminate him.
2). I have it on good authority that the remnants of the Arkona family have discovered my plans and now oppose me. Discover what they know and if necessary they must be defeated. (If your players haven't figured out that Illesoa is going to murder just about everyone in the city in a bid for immortality, this might be a good way to clue them in.)
3). Neolandus Kalepopolus still lives. The former seneschal may cause an unnecessary legal complication for us. Capture or eliminate him.
4). Bishop Keppira d’Bear, priest of Pharasma and suspected sympathizer to the rebels, is reportedly attempting to summon the aid of Planar Outsiders to thwart us. Find her and destroy her summoned minions. (Here's a good opportunity to throw in some extraplanar creatures for the PC's to tangle with.)
5). I suspect there are shoanti warriors hidden within the city. Proof of an alliance between the traitor Cressida Kroft and the unpopular shoanti savages would be very helpful towards swaying public opinion in our favor. Forcing the barbaric shoanti from the city, perhaps by finding and killing their leader, would be even better. (There are indeed shoanti in Korvosa, led by the famous Krojun Eats-What-He-Kills.)
6). Sabina Merrin and her traitorous Grey Maidens are a menace and need to be stopped. Sabina is a brilliant general, defeat her and you'll throw their organization into chaos long enough for us to reclaim the streets.
7). Rumors of a new band of adventurers aiding the rebels disturb me as well. (The rebels are sorely outmatched, can you blame them for turning to hired mercenaries/altruistic adventurers? Peruse the NPC Codex and build the crazy high level party of your desires. Then throw in Trinia Sabor as the fifth member!)
8). Cressida Kroft must answer for her crimes. She hasn't been seen publicly for a while. If you can locate the rebels secret hidden base and capture her our work will become much easier.
At any rate, keep us updated on the progress of your campaign. It certainly seems to have diverged from the usual events and I'd love to hear how it all turns out.
Don't foreget there is a being that is equal in power to that of a Demi-God active in Korvosa. Lorthact! Sermignatto is the fiend that holds Ileosa's contract, but Lorthact is Sermignatto's master. Sermignatto has also been hanging around the Korvosa area since the time of the Runelords and was once an ally of Runelord Sorshen, who even now sleeps below the Mastaba and Castle Korvosa.
Lorthact, as a being of Divine energies, though not a true God, has powers and insight the PCs don't. The contract for Ileosa stipulates that she hands over part of Korvosa to Sermignatto and his Master in exchange for Infernal power. He might be aware that her plans, while not having broken the contract, yet, will not serve him well. HE might contact the PCs, under a benevolent guise, and give them information on the Queen's plans.
Also, if you want a major plot twist, let the Rebels win.
The Rebels manage to storm the Castle and take back the throne, but they learn the Ileosa present was a Simulacrum. Ileosa, left damning information in her study, from planning the murder of her husband, to infecting the city, to her infernal ties and hints at her plan to destroy the city in a bid for immortality. The Rebels could recover this information, and the PCs are ordered to take back the throne by the real Ileosa, using the PCs to delay the Rebels until her ritual is complete.
If the PCs succeed, you should have the last of the Rebel high-ups, probably Kressida or Bishop Keppira d'Bear, reveal the true extent of Ileosa's plans, as a kind of psychotic breakdown, involving lots of mad laughter, knowing the Rebels have failed and Ileosa has won. The PCs should learn that the Queen they have been supporting, has instigated a plan that would annihilate the people of Korvosa, sacrificing them all in a bid for Immortality.
Unless the death of the entire city is in alignment with their goals, the PCs would probably want to stop them. Kudos if you, as suggested above, you get the PCs to donate blood, forcing them to stop her or die.