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Alright, so.. this is a multipart thing.
Dead Shot - roll full attack, count as one hit, uses one bullet..
So if you had a musket, every additional hit adds 1d10 to the damage.
Mysterious stranger - lots say this is a bad archetype due to lacking Firearm training, but it can add its cha bonus onto damage with fire arm attacks. And this is actually added in with musket. So, thats 1d10+cha per additional hit.
Critical Hit - you get this, you get a x4 crit. Thats pretty fierce.
However, trying to get a nat 20 is too hard. Named Bullet. This thing is like a super bane weapon. adds caster level to the bullet in damage on a crit hit.. and auto-provokes a crit on hit.
In otherwords at max (without any other help.)
(4d10+chax4+enhancement+other effects)x4+20
Am I right on that, if you hit on every blow?
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No, each additional hit with Deadshot adds 1d10 damage without any other damage modifiers. So the formula would be ((number of times hit)d10+damage modifiers)x4. Dead Shot deals dismal damage compared to a full-round attack and I wouldn't really say is effective at any time. Maybe if they have DR or you can't risk a misfire but I feel there' s better ways to spend grit. It's only powerful if you score that uber critical hit.
Also, if you read the description for Named Bullet it states the extra damage due to caster level is not multiplied on a critical hit.
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No, each additional hit with Deadshot adds 1d10 damage without any other damage modifiers. So the formula would be ((number of times hit)d10+damage modifiers)x4. Dead Shot deals dismal damage compared to a full-round attack and I wouldn't really say is effective at any time. Maybe if they have DR or you can't risk a misfire but I feel there' s better ways to spend grit. It's only powerful if you score that uber critical hit.
Also, if you read the description for Named Bullet it states the extra damage due to caster level is not multiplied on a critical hit.
Actually, Read mysterious stranger. It's Cha multiplies with Dead Shot.
At 7th level, when she uses the dead shot deed, she multiplies this bonus by the number of hits she made while rolling the Dead Shot attack.
So that is still (X*1d10+X*ChaMod+Enhancment+ExtraMods)*4+CL
Also read the Discription of Named Bullet again
A natural critical hit deals the same extra damage, but that damage is multiplied due to the critical.
On a natural crit, you do multiply that damage. Cause Named bullet auto-threatens. You just needed to read the full description.
There is three BIG reasons to use Dead Shot - 1)Named Bullet and 2)DR and 3) Massive damage rule (If used)
It saves you on ammo too. When used properly its very effective in killing targets. Which is basically when you are using named bullet and mysterious stranger archetype.
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But if you were a musket master with the named bullet spell cast on a pouch with the abundant ammunition spell you would do more damage by having multiple crits in a round. How likely is one to find oneself in a situation where using a level 4 spell without also using a level 1 is a good idea?
Cept Named bullet only affects 1 bullet. Not an entire pouch of them. So Abundant Ammo doesn't function to make all those bullets super bane bullets but on a single piece of ammo.
So, a Musket Master doesn't get any real special ability there. You're not getting multiple critical a round. Hence this is all pretty much moot for Musket Master.
Deadshot is primarily for
- 1) saving ammo
- 2) overcoming DR
- 3) preventing misfires
- 4) when you cannot free action reload
The 4th is the real reason a non-musket master (say a mysterious stranger) using a musket would want to use deadshot - it would allow them to effectively make a full attack every second round or every round after level 11 (as long as you had 1 grit for lightning reload) or every round with a beneficial bandolier. This brings up a problem with the mysterious stranger though, they would be using 1 grit for focused aim to get the multiplied CHR bonus and 1 grit for deadshot, while the musket master would be using just one grit for the deadshot deed.
So basically 'multiple' crits isn't going to happen because you're not casting the speill on the pouch, but the piece of ammo.
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Actually, Read mysterious stranger. It's Cha multiplies with Dead Shot.
Hmm you're right but it's not really powerful. Especially since it costs 2 Grit to pull off. Using Named Bullet is powerful but the other archetypes are better off because they gain free proficiency with the best firearms for Dead Shot (Double pistol or Double Hackbutt)
And take Killer Trait for that +4 on crits.
Killer only adds +4 to the crit confirmation roll, not damage.
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Cept Named bullet only affects 1 bullet. Not an entire pouch of them. So Abundant Ammo doesn't function to make all those bullets super bane bullets but on a single piece of ammo."If, after casting this spell, you cast a spell that enhances projectiles, such as align weapon or greater magic weapon, on the same container, all projectiles this spell conjures are affected by that spell."
But named bullet targets the piece of ammo itself. Not the pouch.
Hmm you're right but it's not really powerful. Especially since it costs 2 Grit to pull off. Using Named Bullet is powerful but the other archetypes are better off because they gain free proficiency with the best firearms for Dead Shot (Double pistol or Double Hackbutt)Actually, Read mysterious stranger. It's Cha multiplies with Dead Shot.
Actually Mysterious stranger has that prof too. No where does it say they lose the prof.
And yes, it does cost 2. That is why you take the grit feat to reduce it by 1. Then when you kill the target with a fire arm attack you gain one back. If you Crit.. (Which you do easily with a named bullet) you gain one back too.
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Alternatively, you can affect as many as 50 arrows, bolts, or bullets. The projectiles must be of the same kind, and they have to be together (in the same quiver or other container). Projectiles, but not thrown weapons, lose their transmutation after they are used. Treat shuriken as projectiles, rather than as thrown weapons, for the purpose of this spell.
Target = 50 projectiles (all of which must be together at the time of casting)
Target fifty projectiles, all of which must be together at the time of casting
Target one piece of ammunition or one thrown weapon
One of these spells is not like the others. One of these spells does not belong. One of these spells doesn't target a container of ammo, one of these spells Does not work with Abundant Ammo
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If the AA spell covered only spells which target multiple projectiles in one casting then it would say: "If, after casting this spell, you cast a spell that enhances 50 projectiles (all of which must be together at the time of casting), such as align weapon or greater magic weapon, on the same container, all projectiles this spell conjures are affected by that spell." But the AA spell doesn't say that, it says "enhances projectiles". This is not a new argument, it dates back to release of Ultimate Combat (see this thread) and the developers have had plenty of time to clarify the wording.
Hmm.. I looked at the thread. Didn't see Dev's clarifying the wording.
And 'cast a spell that enhances 50 projectiles' When you cast Those kinds of spells, you are targeting a container of them.
in the same quiver or other container
You are casting the spell on a container of 50 projectiles. Hence you are casting it on a container. Hence it works.
Named Bullet works with 1 piece. One single piece. You never cast it on a container of ammo.
But /if/ we want to say that your think works. Screw firearms. AA and NB work on arrows. Build an ARcane archer. Slaughter everything under a hailstorm of arrows.
look cnetarian if you go by RAI it's unlikely your intrepretation is right, and if you go by RAW it's definately not right, since it doesn't affect a container. By RAW the only way to make AA work the way you want it to - even with the specified Align Weapon - is by getting a container that is a valid target for the spell in question.
So if you have a quiver that can be used as a sword, AA works the way you want by a strict reading of the RAW. If you're not going to use the strict reading, use the most likely one and/or the one with least impact on game balance. In this case it's "AA doesn't work with NB".
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That's just being silly, think about how many other things are changed that sort of reading. By that standard you cannot use about quarter of the weapon enchants because they can only be placed on melee or ranged weapons (plural), not a singular melee or ranged weapon. And what is the speed of an elf, because while "elves have a base speed of 30 feet" there is no base speed for a singular elf?Yes, but named bullet doesn't "enhance projectiles", it enhances a projectile.
As Ilja points out, AA working with NB is wrong both RAI and RAW. Not even OJ's lawyers can rules lawyer it To get it to ever actually work, you've pretty much got to kidnap your GM's cat and hold it for ransom. Not
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Alternatively, you can affect as many as 50 arrows, bolts, or bullets. The projectiles must be of the same kind, and they have to be together (in the same quiver or other container). Projectiles, but not thrown weapons, lose their transmutation after they are used. Treat shuriken as projectiles, rather than as thrown weapons, for the purpose of this spell.Target = 50 projectiles (all of which must be together at the time of casting)Target fifty projectiles, all of which must be together at the time of castingTarget one piece of ammunition or one thrown weaponOne of these spells is not like the others. One of these spells does not belong. One of these spells doesn't target a container of ammo, one of these spells Does not work with Abundant Ammo
Again, Cnetian, I want to direct your attention to the spells.
The whole 50 pieces of ammo isn't /really/ 50 pieces of ammo. Its a container that contains up to fifty pieces of ammo. Bolding the part you had missed or just flat our ignored earlier. The Line "All of which must be together." actually is referring to a containing device for up to 50 pieces of ammo. Its the difference between a spell that does work with AA and doesn't.
A little adjustment on the math, and double check me because I'm tired.
A successful hit would be (1d10+cha+enhance+misc)[x4 on a crit]+ X(1d10+cha) where X = every additional hit.
So you cannot cast greater magic weapon or align weapon on a container which has had abundant ammunition cast on it, even though those spells are specifically mentioned by name in the abundant ammunition spell description as being castable on a container which has had abundant ammunition cast on it, because those spells don't affect containers? Are then any spells which enhance projectiles and which affect containers?
By a _strict_ reading of the RAW, yes, that is correct. Greater magic weapon etc could theoretically work if your container can be enchanted as a projectile itself.
That's why it's kind of stupid to look at the strict RAW which clearly don't make sense, and instead look at the probable _intent_ behind the spell. And there, I simply think your interpretation is wrong. However, it cannot be proven either way unless someone finds for example an NPC sheet showing AA+NB used or a dev says something.
Picking apart the rules looking for specific words often lead to the rules stopping to make sense, much like any conversation ("What time you got?" "I don't possess any time :S"), instead it's better to look at the whole picture and focusing on intent.
Named bullet is a 4 level spell, witch effectivness is based on caster level. How do you plan on using that? You need to be at least 14 (7 gun, 7 wiz) but most likely 15 (8 sorc and 11 bab). Also, is standard action to cast, so you need to prepare it beforhand.
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Named bullet is a 4 level spell, witch effectivness is based on caster level. How do you plan on using that? You need to be at least 14 (7 gun, 7 wiz) but most likely 15 (8 sorc and 11 bab). Also, is standard action to cast, so you need to prepare it beforhand.
This is where you
1) have a friendly wizard help you
2) Have UMD to use scrolls yourself. Since you are a Mysterious stranger, you're using Charisma
Alternatively, you can affect as many as 50 arrows, bolts, or bullets. The projectiles must be of the same kind, and they have to be together (in the same quiver or other container). Projectiles, but not thrown weapons, lose their transmutation after they are used. Treat shuriken as projectiles, rather than as thrown weapons, for the purpose of this spell.
Note the spell actually says "you can affect as many as 50 arrows, bolts, or bullets" but we are supposed to read the next sentence to be something like "the previous sentence is a lie and the spell actually affects the container they are in, not the projectiles themselves." And this is the only spell that mentions a container.
Well, read the whole spell. Then take a moment and actually think of what has been read. You are affecting the 50 pieces of ammo, but you are targeting the quiver they are in.
You are not making a +X Quiver, you are making up to 50 +X ammo that are all IN that quiver that you are targeting.
Named bullet is a 4 level spell, witch effectivness is based on caster level. How do you plan on using that? You need to be at least 14 (7 gun, 7 wiz) but most likely 15 (8 sorc and 11 bab). Also, is standard action to cast, so you need to prepare it beforhand.This is where you
1) have a friendly wizard help you
2) Have UMD to use scrolls yourself. Since you are a Mysterious stranger, you're using Charisma
3) UMD a wand of it. Said wand would be extremely expensive, but possible.
21K cost the wand. Not exactly cheap. Anyway, this thread inspired me to buld up an NPC i will surely use in my campaigns
Harvey "railgun" Oswald
Mysterius Stranger 7/Spellslinger 8 LI 10 (magical knack)
human dual talented
str 10
dex 14 +4
cos 12
int 13 +2r +1a +4
sag 10
cha 16 +2r +2a +4
legend base +r(acial) +a(ugment) +items
Core Equipment
Musket+2,double hackbut+3 (musket is for backup)
+4 dex, +4int and cha
Hired hitman, he sits invisible on a roof, placing his bouble hackbut, waiting for his target. Using mage bulletts he charge the gun with a 4° level spell making it icy burst and shocking burst. Then haste and heroism. Using 4 grit for dead eye, 1 for focused aim and 1 for dead shot.
BAB 11 , hit touch AC, 250 feat range, up to -4 range penalty with far shot
Total damage
((2d12+7)*4+3(enchant)+6(deadly aim))*4+2d6+6d10=396 damage on average. I'm sure you can get something more with some more work but i'm too alazi to write a complete sheet.
Well. Probably you are right. The wording for dead shot says "all his attacks", witch is the same wording of the magus spell combat, witch has been faqued to not benefit from haste.
Still at my tables whe find that ruling stupid and counterintuitive so we go with the previus universally accepted one of allowing hasted attacks. So at my table haste and dead shot would work.
BTW i forgot the +10 damage for Named Shot in the calculation, so it just broke the 400 damage wall.
Well, doing a lot of damage when using house rules that drastically increase damage is hardly that surprising... xD
Without the "house rule" it's still 300 damage. Noted, it's 1/d and blows everything he has. That's why i think is perfectly suited for a hired hitman NPC and sucks for a player character.
And anyway i think "using houserule" and "not using some faq" isn't the same thing, especially when the faq is so contrieved to open up even more faq .In fact the current faq ruling used to the letter prevents even iteratives. And using RAI is not really an option since the RAI was thrown out of the window by paizo itself when they started ruleslawyering their own books.